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Author Topic:   why is alcohol legal: the george best/opening hours thread
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 7 of 136 (263010)
11-24-2005 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mick
11-24-2005 8:50 PM


in edit: I forgot to ask the significant question: WHY THE FUCK IS ALCOHOL LEGAL?
I think the better question is, why is only alcohol, and very few other intoxicants, legal? Why is it that you can get drugs to make you normal, but not better than normal? Why is it that you can take a drug for "anxiety" but not take drugs for boredom?
Some people probably don't need to be taking drugs, but some adults should be able to take whatever drugs they like. Maybe we should have a recreational drug license?

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 Message 1 by mick, posted 11-24-2005 8:50 PM mick has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by nator, posted 11-26-2005 5:18 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 47 of 136 (263386)
11-26-2005 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by nator
11-26-2005 5:18 PM


Drugs that are taken because one is "bored" are the most dangerous type.
Are they? Our rules in regards to recreational drugs don't seem to be very consistent, if we use harm as a metric. For instance, hundreds (or more) die every year from alcohol poisoning or the physiological toll of years of drinking; marijuana doesn't have those side-effects. A fair number of the side-effects of a lot of illegal drugs stem not from the active drug itself but the sundry chemicals that are invariably introduced into the mixture simply because their illegality mandates that they be prepared outside of a safe laboratory setting.
I've been high on pot, and I've been on Celexa and Welbutrin for depression. I had way worse side-effects from the anti-depressants.
What you're supposed to do when you are bored is find something to do.
Well, why not do drugs? I don't understand why you find that to be a less legitimate activity than, say, an active sport or a good book. Seems like all three of those things accomplish about the same thing, which is to say, nothing.
And besides, "anxiety" is something that interferes with one's functioning in society. "Boredom" is a product of a lack of imagination.
Well, anxiety may simply be too much imagination, it's not clear to me that anxiety is any more pathogenic or appropriately treated with pharmacology than boredom is. Boredom can interfere with your functioning in society, too.
I guess what I'm saying is that it doesn't make sense to perscribe drugs for one fake problem and not another. And what do you suppose those anti-anxiety drugs make you feel like? Probably relaxed, good, open to trying new things, maybe a little gregarious - in other words, exactly like being high. Because they make you high.

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 Message 42 by nator, posted 11-26-2005 5:18 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by nator, posted 11-26-2005 6:14 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 50 of 136 (263390)
11-26-2005 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by nator
11-26-2005 5:53 PM


Re: tough love...
OTOH, you don't really hear of a lot of domestic violence being connected to pot smoking, which tends to make people giggle and feel relaxed.
And listen to Fleetwood Mac. So, you know, watch out for that.

This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 52 of 136 (263401)
11-26-2005 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by nator
11-26-2005 6:14 PM


Books exercise the mind, sport exercises the body. Drugs do neither, for the most part, and can be harmful in the short or long term.
Well, what makes you think drugs can't excerise your mind? I mean, minds aren't muscles; by "excercise" I assume you mean "give you an opportunity to think about things in a new way, or learn something new." Well, what makes you think drugs can't give you an opportunity to think about things in a new way, expand your perceptions, take you on flights of fancy, or even teach you something new about yourself?
You can throw out your back or get tennis elbow too, you know.
But getting high on something all by oneself, just because one is bored, seems to be sort of pathetic.
But, say, reading isn't? Or just sitting and thinking? Or playing Nintendo? It seems to me that just about anything you do by yourself would seem pathetic and lonely; that's what "being by yourself" kind of means.
Indeed, a lot of what people with anxiety disorders report is replaying terrible events from their lives over and over in their minds to the exlusion of other things, which seems like the opposite of imagination to me
I guess I see it as imagining the same thing over an over again, when what they should be doing is to stop imagining and do something. I guess I say that from a perspective of feeling a lot of anxiety as a result of some recent personal matters, and what's killing me is what I'm imagining. When I just stop imagining those things, I feel a lot better.
People tell me that those drugs made them feel like their old selves again.
Were their old selves relaxed and gregarious?
Of course, I can get a boost like that after a great customer compliment at work, after a great talk with a friend, after sex, and I very often feel like that after a workout at the gym. That's why getting exercise is prescribed to people for anxiety and depression.
Well, great. So you get high the circuitous route, the long way; and you think it's wrong to take the more direct approach?
I should say; I don't really use drugs at all. Once or twice in a couple of years (alcohol much more often). I'm not really attracted to feeling high on anything - drugs, religion, sex, whatever. It's stillness that drives me - the stillness of meditation, of nature, of the martial arts, of companionship. Things like that. Probably why I'm neither religious nor on drugs.

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 Message 51 by nator, posted 11-26-2005 6:14 PM nator has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 73 of 136 (263620)
11-27-2005 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by macaroniandcheese
11-27-2005 6:53 PM


Re: ADHD
*sigh* she's the first to scream about sexual stereotypes until they work in her favor.
Well, hang on, now. The idea that male drivers cause more accidents isn't just some "cultural stereotype"; it's a commonly-accepted, often-repeated actuarial justification for soaking male drivers with higher insurance premiums.
This is the first I'd ever heard that that isn't the case. Even the article itself spells out what a surprising find this turns out to be. I think you're way off-base to criticize Schraf for repeating the conventional wisdom, and to accuse her of promulgating a stereotype for her own benefit.
Men do take risks, more so than women. To assert otherwise is to either ignore science or betray a gross misunderstanding of the mind-altering, harmful drug called "testosterone." I am a riskier driver than both my wife and my sister. But also, I've never been in an accident; compared to my wife's one and my sister's three.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-27-2005 6:53 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-27-2005 10:57 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 75 of 136 (263639)
11-27-2005 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by macaroniandcheese
11-27-2005 10:57 PM


Re: ADHD
i just happen to look around me instead of trusting statistics.
So, in other words, you're a creationist.
why do women get in more accidents now? probably because more women drive now than before.
Well, check the article. They're not comparing raw numbers of accidents for men and women; they're comparing accidents per mean hours driven. So an increase in the number of women drivers, or the amount that women drive, wouldn't have any effect on that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-27-2005 10:57 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

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 Message 76 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-27-2005 11:30 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 100 of 136 (263739)
11-28-2005 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by nator
11-28-2005 9:32 AM


Re: ADHD
Hey, while you're at it, ask him about "persecution complexes". Brenn might find that information useful, as well

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by nator, posted 11-28-2005 9:32 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by nator, posted 11-28-2005 3:00 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
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