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Author Topic:   Nazism
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 76 of 91 (294430)
03-12-2006 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by jar
03-11-2006 8:24 AM


Re: why bring up things that are totally unrelated?
There is absolutely NOTHING in your message that has ANYTHING to do with the subjecvts we are discussing.
An 8 year old child is not yet mature enough to make any decisions about behaviour beyond the most basic.
Further, that story has nothing to do with the demon cop out.
It absolutly has to do with the subject.
What we are discussing now is the possibility that Hitler was demon pocessed. You said it was not true, and a cop-out. You never put an age limit on it.
Plus, I am saying, for like the third time, that I sort of agree with you, and I have never really witnessed any demons. But the trouble lies in defining what exactly a demon is.
The 8 year old girl is a perfect example. I mean what do you think is going ot happen to her later on in life when she can be responsible for her own decisions? She will magically be cured?
What if Hitler's childhood was filled with nothing but hate, and abuse?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by jar, posted 03-11-2006 8:24 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by jar, posted 03-12-2006 9:20 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 77 of 91 (294456)
03-12-2006 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by riVeRraT
03-12-2006 7:54 AM


Really, you have to quit changing what I actually say
to what you think I say.
What we are discussing now is the possibility that Hitler was demon pocessed. You said it was not true, and a cop-out. You never put an age limit on it.
Okay, yes we might be talking about whether or not Hitler was demone possessed, but I never said it wasn't true.
What I said was that it is a cop out and it doesn't matter. Using demon possession is simply a cop out for responsibility.
The 8 year old girl is a perfect example. I mean what do you think is going ot happen to her later on in life when she can be responsible for her own decisions? She will magically be cured?
That has NOTHING to do with the subject.
What if Hitler's childhood was filled with nothing but hate, and abuse?
What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying that if your childhood in filled with hate and abuse it's okay to kill 6 million Jews?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by riVeRraT, posted 03-12-2006 7:54 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by riVeRraT, posted 03-13-2006 7:16 AM jar has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 78 of 91 (294814)
03-13-2006 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by jar
03-12-2006 9:20 AM


Re: Really, you have to quit changing what I actually say
Using demon possession is simply a cop out for responsibility.
Ok, since you saeem to know why, then why not explain it, here or start another thread.
Are you saying that if your childhood in filled with hate and abuse it's okay to kill 6 million Jews?
Luke 23:34
Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by jar, posted 03-12-2006 9:20 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by macaroniandcheese, posted 03-13-2006 8:04 AM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 80 by jar, posted 03-13-2006 9:51 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3918 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 79 of 91 (294819)
03-13-2006 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by riVeRraT
03-13-2006 7:16 AM


Re: Really, you have to quit changing what I actually say
Are you saying that if your childhood in filled with hate and abuse it's okay to kill 6 million Jews?
Luke 23:34
Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
oh i think he knew exactly what he was doing when he perpetrated a war he never intended to allow to end and when he murdered 20 million people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by riVeRraT, posted 03-13-2006 7:16 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 80 of 91 (294836)
03-13-2006 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by riVeRraT
03-13-2006 7:16 AM


Re: Really, you have to quit changing what I actually say
jar writes:
Using demon possession is simply a cop out for responsibility.
to which riVeRraT rEpLiEd:
quote:
Ok, since you saeem to know why, then why not explain it, here or start another thread.
I can explain it right here. You are responsible for what you do. When you do evil or wrong things, it is your responsibility. Try to blame it is demons is just a cop-out, a way to avoid your own responsibility.
The rest of your post is a great example of just what I have been saying. The quote was from Jesus and it is exactly what I've been saying all along. The people that killed Jesus were responsible for his death. They might say,"Roman Law made me do it.". or "Jewish Law made me do it.", the "The people chose this man to be crucified." instead of saying "It was my responsibility."
They stand convicted. There is no reason for forgiving them unless they had done something wrong. Jesus understood that, he realized that no cop out was possible, so he made what is called a Special Pleading. He says,"look, they are guilty as sin, but I'm asking you to commute their sentences.
Two different things. Trying to absolve yourself by claiming the the bad things in the world are the work of the devil or demons or original sin are just cop outs.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by riVeRraT, posted 03-13-2006 7:16 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by riVeRraT, posted 03-14-2006 8:41 AM jar has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 81 of 91 (294918)
03-13-2006 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by zephyr
03-09-2006 9:32 AM


quote:
There's enough damn hatred in the world without you inventing it everywhere you look.
Don't you know that, "If yer not for us, yer agin us!"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by zephyr, posted 03-09-2006 9:32 AM zephyr has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 82 of 91 (295134)
03-14-2006 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by jar
03-13-2006 9:51 AM


Re: Really, you have to quit changing what I actually say
There is no reason for forgiving them unless they had done something wrong. Jesus understood that, he realized that no cop out was possible, so he made what is called a Special Pleading. He says,"look, they are guilty as sin, but I'm asking you to commute their sentences.
Well you sure twisted that one around, I disagree 100%.
Where do you get this special pleading? And how does it apply to the Son of God?
They might say,"Roman Law made me do it.". or "Jewish Law made me do it.", the "The people chose this man to be crucified." instead of saying "It was my responsibility."
I don't think they are saying any of that. They were perfectly happy that they killed Jesus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by jar, posted 03-13-2006 9:51 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by jar, posted 03-14-2006 9:51 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 83 of 91 (295157)
03-14-2006 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by riVeRraT
03-14-2006 8:41 AM


Re: Really, you have to quit changing what I actually say
jar writes:
There is no reason for forgiving them unless they had done something wrong. Jesus understood that, he realized that no cop out was possible, so he made what is called a Special Pleading. He says,"look, they are guilty as sin, but I'm asking you to commute their sentences.
to which the rat replies:
Well you sure twisted that one around, I disagree 100%.
Where do you get this special pleading? And how does it apply to the Son of God?
I understand that you disagree, that's fine. And what do you mean where did I get the special pleading. You were the one that brought the special pleading up. It applies to Jesus because that was what he did.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by riVeRraT, posted 03-14-2006 8:41 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by riVeRraT, posted 03-14-2006 10:12 PM jar has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 84 of 91 (295369)
03-14-2006 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by jar
03-14-2006 9:51 AM


Re: Really, you have to quit changing what I actually say
When you said special pleading I thought there was some kind of special title, or just what you called it.
Let me ask you this.
You believe in God right? If so does God ever reveal things to you about your self as you seek Him?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by jar, posted 03-14-2006 9:51 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 03-14-2006 10:17 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 85 of 91 (295372)
03-14-2006 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by riVeRraT
03-14-2006 10:12 PM


Really OT
Sorry but that is totally off topic and has no bearing on anything in this thread.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by riVeRraT, posted 03-14-2006 10:12 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by riVeRraT, posted 03-14-2006 10:44 PM jar has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 86 of 91 (295378)
03-14-2006 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by jar
03-14-2006 10:17 PM


Re: Really OT
Just because you do not see where I am going with this, does not make it off-topic. What we are discussing is the possibility of Hitler being demon possessed.
You say it is not possible, that every one knows what they do.
I showed you that even Jesus asks for peoples forgiveness because they know not what they do. You blatantly disagreed with that bible verse. So now I wish to show you how you have done things in your past to people, and you did not even know you did it.
I speak from experience. As I draw closer to God, He reveals things to me, and shows me the hurt I can put on people with my actions, and my words, without me even knowing it!
Of course this is much milder than what Hitler did, but it shows that it is possible to not know what you are doing when it comes to right and wrong. After all right and wrong is subjective. That is why there are so many arguments about morals.
But still the hurt I can put to people with even just my words, can last a lifetime, and I didn't even know I did it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 03-14-2006 10:17 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by jar, posted 03-14-2006 10:48 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 87 of 91 (295380)
03-14-2006 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by riVeRraT
03-14-2006 10:44 PM


Re: Really OT
Sorry, but not only is this OT, you don't even seem to have a clue what I've said in this thread.
If you can show that you ever read what I've said then perhaps we can go on. But right now, your post just comes across as clueless.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by riVeRraT, posted 03-14-2006 10:44 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by riVeRraT, posted 03-14-2006 11:32 PM jar has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 88 of 91 (295393)
03-14-2006 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by jar
03-14-2006 10:48 PM


Re: Really OT
To call someone clueless and not explain why is just empty. I expressed myself extremely clear, and it would seem that you just do not want to admit that I am right, and that it is on-topic.
What you've said is very simple, demon possession is a cop-out.
Then you've claimed that I am off-topic about 5 times, and not even had the decency to explain why. At least make some sort of effort, otherwise we will forever be in a debate where you say blue, and I say black for eternity.
The topic is Nazism, in which Hitler was the leader, that is who I am talking about, very ON-TOPIC. I am trying to explain the possibility of him not really even knowing what he was doing, or maybe he thought he was doing the right thing.
If he wasn't demon possessed, and he knew exactly what he was doing, then why did he do it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by jar, posted 03-14-2006 10:48 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by jar, posted 03-14-2006 11:54 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 89 of 91 (295402)
03-14-2006 11:54 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by riVeRraT
03-14-2006 11:32 PM


okay, somewhat closer
What you've said is very simple, demon possession is a cop-out.
Yes.
The topic is Nazism, in which Hitler was the leader, that is who I am talking about, very ON-TOPIC. I am trying to explain the possibility of him not really even knowing what he was doing, or maybe he thought he was doing the right thing.
Well I happen to think Hitler did believe that he was doing the good Christian thing, but it also doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if he thought it was the right thing to do or not.
If he wasn't demon possessed, and he knew exactly what he was doing, then why did he do it?
Because he was not a very nice person and did bad things. He is responsible for what he did.
It really is as simple as that.
The concepts of demons or original sin are just cop outs.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by riVeRraT, posted 03-14-2006 11:32 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by riVeRraT, posted 03-15-2006 12:01 AM jar has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 90 of 91 (295405)
03-15-2006 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by jar
03-14-2006 11:54 PM


Re: okay, somewhat closer
The concepts of demons or original sin are just cop outs.
This is your opinion?
Let's put away God for a second. You don't think peoples minds can get screwd up from their upbringing? Are they truely responsible if they have never been shown right from wrong?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by jar, posted 03-14-2006 11:54 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by jar, posted 03-15-2006 12:03 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
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