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Author Topic:   Too Many Meteor Strikes in 6k Years
Harlequin
Inactive Member


Message 109 of 304 (211001)
05-24-2005 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Faith
05-24-2005 9:42 PM


Re: Meteorite:Tsumani causes and effects
Faith writes:
1) NO KNOWN METEORITE IMPACTS HAVE PRODUCED A TSUNAMI. ONE is postulated nevertheless to have done so 65 million years ago -- sorry, not postulated, "KNOWN" since modern science KNOWS stuff like this, right? even though all REALLY TRULY EMPIRICALLY KNOWN historic meteorite impacts have not caused a tsunami.
I hate to point this out to you: there is no known large impact over the ocean in historic times. Surely you can't be suggesting that a peeble-sized or boulder-sized rock falling into the ocean not causing a tsumnami is some kind of disproof. As Scotty told Capt Kirk: "I cannot change the laws of physics captain." If a kilometer sized rock falls on the oceans at high speed there will be tsumani since physics demainds it. The tsumani that will result will make what happened December 26, 2004 seem like a picnic -- literally a nonevent!
3) SHIPS AT SEA DO NOT NORMALLY EVEN NOTICE A PASSING TSUNAMI. This is the most important information to answer those who claimed the effects would be devastating to Noah's ark. The ark was a huge ship by the way. 450' x 75' x 45' with three stories.
No ship has ever encountered a tsumani the size the impact will create. The reason why ships don't notice them is very simple: several kilometers deep of water can handle to the wave: the shore cannot. That depth will is not enough to handle volume of water which will move due to the impact.
3) TSUNAMIS HAVE VARIABLE EFFECTS: This is an academic point if we're talking about effects while the Flood covered the entire earth, but it might have relevance to Noah's having arrived on land before the flood fully receded and meteorites landed in the ocean: Tsunami effects are variable, may cause damage in one place, not in one nearby, so that there is no absolute certainty about how they might affect a given location 4000+ years ago.
The answer to this is the same as before. You simply don't comprehend just how bad such an impact will be.
This message has been edited by Harlequin, 05-24-2005 10:47 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Faith, posted 05-24-2005 9:42 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Faith, posted 05-24-2005 11:05 PM Harlequin has replied

Harlequin
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 304 (211006)
05-24-2005 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Randy
05-24-2005 10:22 PM


Re: Meteorite:Tsumani causes and effects
Randy writes:
What see remaining on earth are the scars from a tiny fraction of the impacts that must have occured during the history of the planet as analysis of the moon makes clear.
There was simply no way for complex life on earth to have survived the asteroid storm that created the lunar bombardment even if it was spread over a few million years, let alone crammed into either preflood times or the "flood year" in the YEC model.
To support this any YEC is asked to consider: The Earth has 81 times the mass of the Moon. That means that Earth has 81 times the gravity of the Moon. The Earth is going to get hit more often than the Moon because of its gravity. And the stuff is going to be coming in, on average, faster. Now look at the Moon; it is just potmarked if many HUGE craters. And it is loaded with with many craters of all sizes. And it is not a fluke: every planet, moon, and asterioid ever seen is also just littered with such craters unless it has active geology which can erase craters or has no solid surface that we can see (like the gas giants like Jupiter).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Randy, posted 05-24-2005 10:22 PM Randy has not replied

Harlequin
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 304 (211008)
05-24-2005 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Faith
05-24-2005 11:05 PM


Re: Meteorite:Tsumani causes and effects
Faith writes:
The answer to this is the same as before. You simply don't comprehend just how bad such an impact will be.
You know what? Neither do you. All this is hypothetical. ALL of it. Math is great but if you can't test your calculations they remain hypothetical.
HOWEVER, I will eventually get to this part of the thread if everybody will just hold their horses.
My answer is simple: two words that are probably not allowed.
You are simply sticking your head into the sand. There is nothing hypothetical a 10 kilometer-wide rock hitting the ocean at high speed causing a tsumani. If you reject the physics here, then you are pretty much rejecting all of physics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Faith, posted 05-24-2005 11:05 PM Faith has not replied

Harlequin
Inactive Member


Message 117 of 304 (211013)
05-24-2005 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by NosyNed
05-24-2005 11:16 PM


Re: Wave height
NosyNed writes:
What is not clear is where the wave height is measured. If it is when the tsunami reaches shore than 10's or 100's of meters high is reasonable. If it is in deep water and far enough from the impact then I don't know.
You are right, of course, there are other problems than just the waves.
Yes the Tsunami is just the begining.
Faith need to consider: given the mass and velocity of the object, how much energy must be released is a trivial problem. Just calculate the kinetic energy (one half times the mass times the velocity squared) of the object. All of that kinetic energy will have to be converted into some other kind of energy. All the energy for the 10-km wide objects hitting the Earth must go somewhere. Plus all the energy from the 1-km wide objects. Plus all the energy from every object that hits the Earth.
Surely Faith does not consider kinetic energy a mere hypothesis?
Maybe someone needs to calculate this in terms how many Hiroshima-sized bombs worth of energy per square kilometer of the Earth?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by NosyNed, posted 05-24-2005 11:16 PM NosyNed has not replied

Harlequin
Inactive Member


Message 118 of 304 (211015)
05-25-2005 12:00 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by DrJones*
05-24-2005 11:38 PM


Re: Meteorite:Tsumani causes and effects
DrJones writes:
What makes you think these calculations can't be tested? How much do you know about physics?
You're quite full of contradictions. You seem to dismiss everything that you can't personally expereince but at the same time believe in some invisible sky bully. Over in other threads you berate Arach, telling him he's arrogant for not being a sheep and blindly following christian dogma, claiming that the various christian scholars know their stuff bettter than he does. Yet at the same time you exhibit the same arrogance by ignoring and dismissing the various scientists out there who do know their stuff better than you.
Yes. You have nailed it. Faith is, without realizing it, asking us to completely reject physics. These principles involved are extremely well-understood and have been extensively tested. They are the basis of much of the technology around us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by DrJones*, posted 05-24-2005 11:38 PM DrJones* has not replied

Harlequin
Inactive Member


Message 175 of 304 (211552)
05-26-2005 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by arachnophilia
05-26-2005 1:38 AM


Re: Not 6000 years, 4000.
arachnophilia writes:
i wouldn't call phil plait the bad astronomer! he's the one debunking bad astronomy. coincidentally, do you watch penn and teller's "bullshit!" they interviewed him regarding the "moon hoax" crap.
"The Bad Astronomer" is the title that Dr. Plait uses on his own web site and indeed is his user name on his site's bulletin board system.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by arachnophilia, posted 05-26-2005 1:38 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by AdminAsgara, posted 05-26-2005 6:38 PM Harlequin has not replied
 Message 180 by arachnophilia, posted 05-26-2005 10:10 PM Harlequin has not replied

Harlequin
Inactive Member


Message 176 of 304 (211559)
05-26-2005 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by arachnophilia
05-26-2005 6:47 AM


Re: How scientific discoveries are reported
arachnophilia writes:
There is also no crater to corroborate such a huge hit.
there wasn't one for the k-t event for a long time, either. and then we found it.
these are events that happened millions of years ago. they have been eroded, covered in sediment, filled in, and shifted around or distorted. we only know about yucatan one because of advanced seismological technology. you can't see it standing right above its center. its quite a distance below the ground, and stradles the coastline of the peninsula. standing right on top of it, you'd never know.
yet there it is on the gravity map.
Assuming the mass extinction of the Permian/Triassic was caused by a large impact, the odds are that we will never find a crater. The odds are that that impact hit in the ocean and the vast majority of the ocean floor existing at the time has been since been subjected to the ultimate crater eraser: subduction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by arachnophilia, posted 05-26-2005 6:47 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by arachnophilia, posted 05-26-2005 10:12 PM Harlequin has not replied

Harlequin
Inactive Member


Message 281 of 304 (212015)
05-27-2005 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by Randy
05-27-2005 3:39 PM


Re: Gotta support Faith on this.
Randy writes:
When you look at the impact distribution map you see certain things.
1. No craters are known in the oceans.
2. Few craters in areas of active mountain building
3. No craters in Antarctica
4. Few in jungle areas such as the Amazon Basin
There is no reason that these areas should have been spared. There must have been many more craters that either have not been found or that have been obliterated by geologic processes.
Also notice that the U.S. and Western Europe have more than their fair share of craters. This is due to the fact of where most geologists are at. Other places with concentrations of craters can also be explained by where geologists live/study.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Randy, posted 05-27-2005 3:39 PM Randy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Randy, posted 05-27-2005 10:44 PM Harlequin has replied

Harlequin
Inactive Member


Message 289 of 304 (212044)
05-28-2005 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 282 by Randy
05-27-2005 10:44 PM


Re: Gotta support Faith on this.
Randy writes:
Also notice that the U.S. and Western Europe have more than their fair share of craters. This is due to the fact of where most geologists are at. Other places with concentrations of craters can also be explained by where geologists live/study.
That would explain the relative paucity of craters known in the Amazon basin and parts of Africa for sure. I suspect that there are many more to be discovered in some places but in other places with a lot of geological activity there were certainly past craters that have been wiped out maybe only leaving some shocked minerals behind if that.
Most definitely. Indeed that was clearly implied by the part of your post that I quoted.
Lets summarize:
The three factors that determine how many craters are known:
1) Where they can could have existed for many millions of years
without getting destroyed.
2) Where we have a least a chance of actually finding them if they were present.
3) Where there geologists, especially academic geologists and graduate students, actually live and work. With emphasis in the areas where they done so the longests.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Randy, posted 05-27-2005 10:44 PM Randy has not replied

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