Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 66 (9164 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,469 Year: 3,726/9,624 Month: 597/974 Week: 210/276 Day: 50/34 Hour: 1/5


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Too Many Meteor Strikes in 6k Years
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 165 of 304 (211370)
05-26-2005 5:09 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by Faith
05-26-2005 3:38 AM


Re: How scientific discoveries are reported
Is there some reason why you fail to distinguish between a newspaper report of research and the research itself. If you read the actual paper upon which this article is based, or indeed made any effort outside of reading the article, you would find a number of other references for evidence of both a similiar kind and of distinctly different kinds. You will also note some details are given of the adjacent geological layers.
Chondritic Meteorite Fragments Associated with the Permian-Triassic Boundary in Antarctica
Asish R. Basu, Michail I. Petaev, Robert J. Poreda, Stein B. Jacobsen, Luann Becker
Science, Vol 302, Issue 5649, 1388-1392 , 21 November 2003
Abstract:Multiple chondritic meteorite fragments have been found in two sedimentary rock samples from an end-Permian bed at Graphite Peak in Antarctica. The Ni/Fe, Co/Ni, and P/Fe ratios in metal grains; the Fe/Mg and Mn/Fe ratios in olivine and pyroxene; and the chemistry of Fe-, Ni-, P-, and S-bearing oxide in the meteorite fragments are typical of CM-type chondritic meteorites. In one sample, the meteoritic fragments are accompanied by more abundant discrete metal grains, which are also found in an end-Permian bed at Meishan, southern China. We discuss the implications of this finding for a suggested global impact event at the Permian-Triassic boundary.
Excerpt from paper
The end-Permian beds are exposed over about 2 m and include the last Gondwana coal bed of end-Permian age, above a bed with the last occurrence of Glossopteris flora. Above the coal bed is a claystone breccia with anomalously low {delta}13C value (~—40 {per thousand}). Shocked quartz (8) and extraterrestrial fullerenes with trapped noble gases have been reported from this bed (9). On the basis of paleobotanic and isotopic criteria, and shocked quartz grains, the claystone breccia (Fig. 1) has been identified as the Permian-Triassic (P-T) boundary in Antarctica (7, 8, 10). This interpretation was also confirmed and extended by similar observations on P-T sections at Wybung Head, NSW, Australia (7, 10), as well as by extraterrestrial fullerene evidence from China and Japan (11).
7. E. S. Krull, G. J. Retallack, Bull. Geol. Soc. Am. 112, 1459
8. G. J. Retallack et al., Geology 26, 979 (1998).
9. R. J. Poreda, L. Becker, Astrobiology 3, 75 (2003).
10. N. D. Sheldon, G. J. Retallack, Geology 30, 919 (2002).
11. L. Becker, R. J. Poreda, A. G. Hunt, T. E. Bunch, M. Rampino, Science 291, 1530 (2001).
Figure 1
Maybe before you try to criticise the scientific evidence you should actually take some time to look at that evidence.
To some extent this is Wnopes' fault for using an article from the popular press for a reference, but if you think that criticising how something is reported in the popular press is equivalent to actually substantively critiquing the research itself you are sadly mistaken.
OK, so far "all over the globe means Antarctica and China.
You don't even seem to be able to understand the pre-digested science pap in the article. The iridium is found globally. The deposits they found in antartica, which are nothing to do with iridium, correspond to similar deposits found in China.
Forget an ability to interpret scientific data, how about showing a bit of reading comprehension.
TTFN,
WK
This message has been edited by Wounded King, 05-26-2005 05:11 AM
This message has been edited by Wounded King, 05-26-2005 05:17 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 05-26-2005 3:38 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Faith, posted 05-26-2005 5:44 AM Wounded King has replied
 Message 167 by Faith, posted 05-26-2005 6:00 AM Wounded King has replied

Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 169 of 304 (211381)
05-26-2005 6:31 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by Faith
05-26-2005 5:44 AM


Re: How scientific discoveries are reported
And of course you choose to ignore the obvious implications of this kind of thinking in the areas of evolutionism and the geo timeline, which the more sophisticated scientific reports only obfuscate although it is really the same kind of thinking.
This just seems to be gibberish. The only kind of thinking that seems to be in evidence is that theories supported by some data are preferential to those with no data whatsoever.
That's how I read it anyway.
My apologies, I take your point about the dust cloud. It would be a perfectly reasonable expectation that you would see this globally, but they don't make any claims that they have found evidence for this, and the phrase you quoted was specifically referring to the iridium deposits.
However, in neither case is there any way to prove that the meteorite chemicals actually are found all over the globe, as I explained.
I don't recall any such explanation, was it in a different post? Why would their presence in the same geological strata at a number of sites, ideally a random sampling, over the world not be compelling evidence. I'm not claiming that I have access to this evidecnce, I'm just asking why such evidence wouldn't be convincing. Obviously if you doubt the veracity of the geologic column then it might not be convincing, but most people accept the common identity of the various strata.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Faith, posted 05-26-2005 5:44 AM Faith has not replied

Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 171 of 304 (211383)
05-26-2005 6:43 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Faith
05-26-2005 6:00 AM


Re: How scientific discoveries are reported
It also gives a chemical name to the fragments which the popular accounts didn't for some reason.
Perhaps because it is simply a popular account and not a technical piece of research?
In other words your more detailed scientific information has not contributed one thing new of any importance to what I've already discussed about the popular reports.
Perhaps because most of the popular report is not directly relevant to the paper, I'm not claiming that the extrapolations the CBS article ofr even the papers author choose to make are neccessarily justified, simply that by rebutting such an article you are only taking down a strawman of the actual research. Obviously what I presented was not the whole article but only some extracts, the main points I was drawing to your attention were that there are a number of other papers dealing with data relating to this supposed impact from various sites around the world and that the paper does give details of the surrounding geologic layers, something you were complaining was absent in the CBS article.
And there remains the question raised at the close of the CBS report about how these chemicals could have survived 251 million years under normal conditions of weathering.
Indeed, and the possibly ephemeral nature of these chemicals does present a problem for finding a global distribution. It would be interesting to see if there are any particular environmental commonalities between the Antarctic and the Chinese beds which might explain the preservation at these sites but not globally, if there is a paucity of such deposits at other sites.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Faith, posted 05-26-2005 6:00 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by Faith, posted 05-26-2005 11:06 PM Wounded King has not replied

Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 173 of 304 (211387)
05-26-2005 6:51 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Faith
05-26-2005 6:00 AM


Re: How scientific discoveries are reported
The way evolutionism and the geo timetable are presented to the public is a disgrace, a travesty of science, and I'm as interested in blowing that kind of deceit as I am in this topic.
I heartily agree, in fact the way almost all science is presented in the media is a travesty of the actual methods and findings of science. But this is due more to a crass approach on the part of the media rather than some sort of intentional conspiracy from science.
The habit of many researchers to run off to the media before getting their work published is a big contributing factor though, as well as the tendency to exaggerate the significance or implications of ones work.
Perhaps we should start a new thread on the public presentation of science.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Faith, posted 05-26-2005 6:00 AM Faith has not replied

Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 229 of 304 (211713)
05-27-2005 5:03 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Faith
05-26-2005 11:12 PM


Re: crater evidence
This site links to a number of research papers which are sceptical of the evidence for the Chicxulub impact being responsible for the K-T extinction. One small caveat is that all of the research comes from one small group of scientists, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be seriously considered.
Pope, et al. (1998) has a number of references to the original research on the K/T boundary impact and Chicxulub crater, but I haven't been able to study that data myself.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Faith, posted 05-26-2005 11:12 PM Faith has not replied

Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 233 of 304 (211717)
05-27-2005 5:30 AM
Reply to: Message 228 by Faith
05-27-2005 4:54 AM


Re: evidence or assertion
NOT IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA OF THE HIT, but at whatever distance the heat meets the cool of the ocean and the atmosphere, which would be determined by the size of the hit, and the water-soaked world of the FLood SHOULD, it seems to me, have some effect in reducing the expected global effect that everybody is predicting by SOME measurable degree.
Provided the iridium particles were fine enough they could easily reach the stratosphere given the supposed intensity of an impact. In the stratosphere they could easily stay suspended for years, as has been observed with nuclear fallout.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Faith, posted 05-27-2005 4:54 AM Faith has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024