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Author Topic:   UK general election (May 5th)
MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 4549 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 16 of 64 (200859)
04-21-2005 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Ooook!
04-12-2005 5:39 AM


What do you think the outcome will be?

Labour victory - between 75 and 125 overall majority. If there is a Madrid style attack all bets are off.

Are there any differences between the two main parties?

Yes - Labour have a non-zero chance of forming the next government :)

How does the political process differ from that in the US? Does that make it better or worse?

A few obvious ones :

  • We have a Parliamentary rather than a Presidential system so in theory we are voting for our local MPs rather than Blair/Howard/Kennedy (in practice that is rarely the case though)
  • Not even in Florida would they allow our postal vote system :(
  • No head to head debates
  • Religion, abortion and 'moral values' will not be factors (although worringly people are trying to make such things feature over here)

Will the result have any significant effect on US/world politics?

Not really.

Do you think the Liberal Democrats will have much of an impact this time?

Probably not - if they do anything it will be to really hurt the Tories by taking a slew of marginals.

Who are the Liberal Democrats?

A schizoid party - the Liberal part with the freedom of the individual history and the Social Democrat part with more of the big government/welfare state kind of agenda.


The Tigers roared in Dublin - and I was there.
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contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 64 (201130)
04-22-2005 9:30 AM


Both Blair and Kennedy suffered maulings at the hands of Paxman. Howard's on tonight, I doubt he will fare well.
Replies to this message:
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Dr Jack
Member (Idle past 300 days)
Posts: 3507
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 18 of 64 (201140)
04-22-2005 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by contracycle
04-22-2005 9:30 AM


I thought Blair did extremely well; I was thinking much more favourably of him after than before. Howard should be entertaining.
This message is a reply to:
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contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 64 (201164)
04-22-2005 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Dr Jack
04-22-2005 9:56 AM


Well, I don't think he collapsed, but everyone has siezed on his inability to give a number for illegal immigrants and run off into the hills with it.

And, I keep wanting to slap Blair for saying "people have to make a judgement". We have made a judgement, thats his problem.

I thought Kennedy just looked out of his depth.


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mick
Member (Idle past 3182 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 20 of 64 (201539)
04-23-2005 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Ooook!
04-12-2005 5:39 AM


personally i'm looking forward to these bad boys winning a couple of seats

http://www.respectcoalition.org

audio files of convention speeches available at http://www.respectcoalition.org/index.php?sec=13

(start from the bottom if you want them in temporal order)


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Tusko
Member (Idle past 44 days)
Posts: 605
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


Message 21 of 64 (203935)
04-30-2005 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Ooook!
04-12-2005 5:39 AM


I have the enviable choice in my constituency of picking between Oona King, George Galloway and Syed Dulu (Lib Dem).

I must say that the idea of George Galloway is quite scary, though I don't know all that much about him. Does anyone else think him a fine upstanding citizen? I found that Saddam Hussein stuff quite odd, but thats about all I know.

Thoughts?

P.S. I'm not talking about Respect policies, which seem pretty cool to me. I'm talking about Galloway.

This message has been edited by Tusko, 04-30-2005 11:15 AM


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Replies to this message:
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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 64 (203937)
04-30-2005 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Tusko
04-30-2005 10:45 AM


You live in Bethnal Green & Bow, Tusko?

I'm at the other side of London, but I'm just a tourist, em, foreign student.

I read in the papers that extremists harass Oona King and George Galloway there. Do you know anything more about this?


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Tusko
Member (Idle past 44 days)
Posts: 605
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


Message 23 of 64 (203939)
04-30-2005 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Andya Primanda
04-30-2005 10:58 AM


No, well yes - I'm just on the edge of that boundary, but I actually live near Tower Bridge.

I heard that a few enthusiastic young Respect supporters beat up an old labour supporter when he said he's never vote for Galloway. It was in the Metro or free Standard yesterday so I didn't really hear anything more.

George Monbiot in the Guardian was whispering "Vote Repsect, Vote Respect" the other day, but I feel quite wary of Galloway. Perhaps my mind has been poisoned by the effective propoganda machine of the military industrial complex, or something.


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Monk
Member (Idle past 2120 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 24 of 64 (203950)
04-30-2005 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Ooook!
04-12-2005 5:39 AM


quote:
How does the political process differ from that in the US? Does that make it better or worse?

There are many differences, but the one that strikes me in particular is Britain’s parliamentary system with first past the post voting. This ensures government control by one party and is contrasted to coalition based democracy in the US.

The result of the 2004 elections in the US has put the republican party in command of the executive and legislative branches. This in some ways can be viewed as being closer to a parliamentary system. Some would argue that the US is moving closer to authoritarianism or even fascism.

Republicans now exert extensive control. The Supreme Court is split so for the time being, one party control is not absolute. This is not the norm in US politics but is the norm in British politics.

I was wondering how you Brits view one party rule and the benefits verses the negatives.


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Replies to this message:
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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6696
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 25 of 64 (203951)
04-30-2005 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Monk
04-30-2005 12:11 PM


quote:
There are many differences, but the one that strikes me in particular is Britain’s parliamentary system with first past the post voting.

The US uses (at least in the US House of Representatives, as well in the state legislatures) exactly the same single member districts, contested in first past the post elections that the UK does. The only difference is that in the UK the party leadership determines who the party candidate in a given district is, while in the US the candidate must not only be a resident of the district, but she is chosen by primary election or party caucuses.


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Replies to this message:
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Monk
Member (Idle past 2120 days)
Posts: 782
From: Kansas, USA
Joined: 02-25-2005


Message 26 of 64 (203959)
04-30-2005 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Chiroptera
04-30-2005 12:17 PM


quote:
The US uses (at least in the US House of Representatives, as well in the state legislatures) exactly the same single member districts, contested in first past the post elections that the UK does.

Well, all representative governments share some similarities. My point was in regards to Britain's parliamentary form of government with single party rule and the current state of US politics.


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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6696
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 27 of 64 (203962)
04-30-2005 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Monk
04-30-2005 2:16 PM


And one similarity between the US and UK systems is first past the post elections, which you initially claimed was a difference.

One major difference between the the US and UK systems is that in the UK the party directly chooses who will run in which districts, giving the safest districts to higher up leaders and loyal party members. This leads to more loyalty to the party platform in parliament (fewer cross-over votes, I imagine, than in the US Congress), and as a result in the UK you are usually voting for the party, whereas in the US people are often voting for the personality.

Funny, though -- maybe some of our British comrades should be commenting on this.


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Ooook!
Member (Idle past 4011 days)
Posts: 340
From: London, UK
Joined: 09-29-2003


Message 28 of 64 (203990)
04-30-2005 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Chiroptera
04-30-2005 2:28 PM


Funny, though -- maybe some of our British comrades should be commenting on this.

Alright, alright I get the hint ;)

One major difference between the the US and UK systems is that in the UK the party directly chooses who will run in which districts, giving the safest districts to higher up leaders and loyal party members.This leads to more loyalty to the party platform in parliament

I don't think this is true, at least not officially. Candidates are chosen by their local constituency party members and they tend to stick to campaigning in the same seat if elected, so it doesn't equate directly with "you've been a good MP have a nice, defendable seat". Some of the most vocal Labour 'rebels' are in nice safe seats, and the most gratifying moments during the 1997 election night were when two prominent Tories got elected out of their seats (I'm hoping the opposite isn't true this time).

Of course there is a lot of blurring of lines (as I would image there is in the States). Mr "Cuddly" Howard effectively sacked a selected candidate because he hinted that public spending might have to cut even further than officially stated.

How does candidate selection happen across the pond then?


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jar
Member
Posts: 31071
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 29 of 64 (203994)
04-30-2005 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Chiroptera
04-30-2005 2:28 PM


Yeah, here in the US we just redistrict to keep safe seats. ;)


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
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Ooook!
Member (Idle past 4011 days)
Posts: 340
From: London, UK
Joined: 09-29-2003


Message 30 of 64 (204002)
04-30-2005 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Monk
04-30-2005 12:11 PM


Hello again Monk,

I was wondering how you Brits view one party rule and the benefits verses the negatives

Of course my immediate counter-question would be to ask what you think the benefits/disadvatages of having a choice between Centre Right and Further Right would be? ;)

If you think Schraf is Left-wing, take a look at the R.E.S.E.C.T. link that Mick posted earlier!

I don't actually think there is much of a difference between having a majority in congress and the senate and having control over the House of Commons. 'Consensus' only stretches so far surely, otherwise you wouldn't have to designate someone as Democrat or Republican. The main difference in this country I can see is that there is actually a viable third party - the liberal democrats.

If no overall majority is acheived or if Labour gets in with a severely reduced majority then you will see a real role for them in the next parliament. Can you really say that about the Libertarians?


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