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Author Topic:   internet porn reduces rape
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 63 (362720)
11-08-2006 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by arachnophilia
11-06-2006 10:04 PM


How far does consent go?
It is your responsibility to make sure that anyone with whom you have sexual contact is fully aware of the situation and has actively given consent! “Consent” means a voluntary agreement to participate in sexual activity and requires mutually understandable and communicated words and/or actions demonstrating such agreement. A failure to object does not mean that the other person has consented. For example, a person may be unable to consent if the person is under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
This post got me thinking about something and I'd like everyone's input on it. Suppose a female is so inebriated so as to not make rationale decisions. Suppose the male was banking on this opportunity, but she did consent. Now, she wakes up the next morning completely surprised to be in bed with this, (in her mind), total stranger. Lets say she throws a big stink and decides to press charges against him as she claims that he gave her a sedative.
At what point does consent not really comply with consent? Can she file a legitimate motion against him or is it her responsibility not to get so smashed that she makes poor decisions?
I have another scenario. Suppose two people meet at a bar or whatever, and they hit it off. They both consent to having sex and do so in the course of the night. Now, it was a one-night-stand and neither of them have spoken to other in a week. Suppose one of the gave the other AIDS. Was it the right of the person with AIDS to mention that information, or is it, so sorry, maybe you should take sex a little more seriously for this very reason? Can the person who contracted the disease file for damages? How do you think the courts would recognize this?
Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : No reason given.

"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2nd Corinthians 10:4-5

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by arachnophilia, posted 11-06-2006 10:04 PM arachnophilia has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by crashfrog, posted 11-08-2006 9:21 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 35 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-08-2006 10:00 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 63 (362823)
11-09-2006 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by crashfrog
11-08-2006 9:21 PM


Re: How far does consent go?
You're contradicting yourself. Was she so inebriated as to not make rational decisions, or did she consent? It can't be both.
Alright, perhaps I worded it wrong. What constitutes consent and what constitutes the inability to make rationale decisions. Obviously everyone handles alcohol differently, so using measurements won't work. Where, then, is the line drawn in the sand from a legal POV?
quote:
At what point does consent not really comply with consent?
When one's judgement is so impared as to make assertions of consent meaningless. Seems pretty simple to me.
How is that simple? A person stammering and stumbling over themselves would be a clear indication to me. But again, everyone handles alcohol differently. Also, is it impossible that both people are drunk and neither of them can make good decisions? What should happen to them? Do they cancel each other out?
quote:
Was it the right of the person with AIDS to mention that information, or is it, so sorry, maybe you should take sex a little more seriously for this very reason?
Ah, right. Sluts have to be punished, after all.
Punished by whom?
quote:
Can the person who contracted the disease file for damages?
Yes. Failure to disclose known AIDS status is a crime.
I'm assuming that's all depending on the state, though I can't imagine a state that wouldn't have a similar law. Alright, what if it was a non-lethal STD? Let's say you ask your partner right before if they are clean and they tell you yes. If that person knows they do have an STD, can the other person file a motion against them?

"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2nd Corinthians 10:4-5

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by crashfrog, posted 11-08-2006 9:21 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by crashfrog, posted 11-09-2006 9:26 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 63 (362827)
11-09-2006 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by macaroniandcheese
11-08-2006 10:00 PM


Re: How far does consent go?
if i eat food that you've chosen to dishonestly poison, does this mean it is my fault for not eating more seriously, or is this a case in which you committed a crime against me with your dishonesty?
Good point. If the person doesn;t know he has AIDS and gives it to his partner, can he go in for manslaughter?
i love how your moral system claims that it's more important for me to not fuck than for anyone to be a decent human being.
Excuse me? I asked a simple question that has NOTHING to do with my personal beliefs. Its a 'what if' scenario from a legal perspective. Aside from which, 'my moral system' says nothing about that.
How did I get so lucky to get the two firebrands answering me and no one else?

"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2nd Corinthians 10:4-5

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-08-2006 10:00 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 63 (362859)
11-09-2006 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by crashfrog
11-09-2006 9:26 AM


Re: How far does consent go?
But it seems to me that if you're sitting there, wondering how how you have to game her drinking to get her in the sack without rendering consent meaningless, you're doing the wrong thing. Missing the point, as it were.
From a moral point-of-view I find it rather reprehensible to try and get people drunk to sexually take advantage of them. But I was looking more at this scenario, wondering, if someone is for the most part a stand-up guy/gal and they both were trashed and neither of them could make good decisions. Do they cancel each other out?

"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2nd Corinthians 10:4-5

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by crashfrog, posted 11-09-2006 9:26 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by crashfrog, posted 11-09-2006 12:10 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 63 (362999)
11-09-2006 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by crashfrog
11-09-2006 12:10 PM


Re: How far does consent go?
The court would have to decide if a rape occured. But surely you have to recognize that, if a woman comes out of that experience victimized, surely more occured than simply two people fooling around.
I meant it as if one or both were trashed and both were all about it. They both had sex, both enjoyed it and crashed out. When the woman woke up the next day, she 'assumed' that she was taken advantage of, in essence, raped, even though she was nowhere near raped by any reasonable standard. Would the courts simply throw the book at him over her testimony? It sounds like a tough case, because he's absolutely bewildered and she is not being malicious, she honestly believes in her mind that she was raped. It sounds like a very tough case. Of course this is all hypothetical but I'm sure something like this has happened before.
With the extent to which we re-victimize rape victims in our legal system, the idea that a woman would emerge from such an experience and think it was a good idea to fabricate a rape charge is mythical, ridiculous.
Some people have fabricated rape. That's neither mythical nor mysterious. But my scenario doesn't have that malicious intent. My scenario has a women who honestly thinks she was raped.
The reason that only about 20% of rapes are reported - not to even mention how few are prosecuted - is that the victim gets raked over the coals, her life turned inside out for just the slightest hint that she's ever drank alcohol, or ever had sex except in the most chaste, mainstream way, or was dressed in anything but sackcloth.
What are you talking about? What does this have to do with the scenario? What woman gets raked over the coals for drinking alcohol or unchaste sex in a court of law? A rape charge isn't going to be decided by some activist judge but a jury of her peers as is with all criminal cases.
I don't know what you mean by "stand-up guy." I don't see what that has to do with rape.
That's me saying that the guy in the scenario is not a rapist. Other than this accusation, he's a stand-up guy. That's what I meant.
If you're under the mistaken impression that rape, being a monstrous crime, is something only a monster is capable of, you're quite wrong. The simple fact is that even "stand-up guys" rape women. Rapists have friends, jobs, spouses and girlfriends even. I'm sure you know a few rapists. Just think about that. Some of your closest friends are probably rapists. There's simply too many men raping women for that not to be true.
What does this have to do with anything? You are talking about apples while I'm speaking about oranges.
Crimes don't get canceled out simply because the criminal is a "stand-up guy." Rape doesn't simply evaporate because you were too drunk to be in control of your actions. If a woman comes out of that victimized, the fact that you were drunk when you were raping her - the fact that you told yourself you had her consent - is irrelevant. Why on Earth would you expect that to matter?
The entire point of the post is that he didn't rape her, rather, he had consensual sex with her. If they were both drunk would they cancel each other's rape's out? If they were both just smashed, did they rape each other, or did they have drunken consensual sex?
Edited by AdminModulous, : off topic post rendered invisible

"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God." -2nd Corinthians 10:4-5

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by crashfrog, posted 11-09-2006 12:10 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by tudwell, posted 11-09-2006 10:58 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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