Separation of Church and State

They're lucky that they've been allowed to do that much. Using public funds to bring in "a ministry that preaches the gospel" seems to me to be a pretty clear violation of the seperation of church and state.

---

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

Yes, I do realize that. Do you realize that the Jewish God, and the Christian one, are the same God?When you use the word God, it can mean any god. Whatever god you want it to be. No-one is being forced into believing in any one god, or into believing in God period, just by saying one nation under God.
90% of Americans believe in God, and the people who wrote the Declaration of Independence believed in God. So what is the problem with having God in our nation?The problem would be if there was only one religion, and that religion was controlled by the governement, and we were all forced to believe it. That to me is th ereason why we need a separation of church and state.I find no problem with our government sponsoring religious events, or holidays, or allowing time for prayer in schools. It doesn't have to be religion specific.
Jane can pray to her God
Billy can pray to his God,
and Spot doesn't have to pray, cause he don't believe. So he can do some yoga or something, whatever.On Christmas, we should be singing songs about Christ.
On Hanukkah we can sing about dreidels, etc.But on national atheist day, we won't do a thing, because it doesn't exist, or does any kind of atheistic religion. Not to everyone they don't. The golden rule is the sum of the commandments.I am not Jewish.

If you read the link, you would know that it is funded by local busnisess. THere is no reason why the schools can't bring all of the religions in and let them teach a little something about themselfs, so that our youth can learn about the different religions, and not be raised in a Godless enviroment. Theology is a course in school, is it not?

To the statement that Yahweh means God to the statement asking why it is wrong to use Yahweh, but not God. (edit: as to what the two words mean, also)I was pointing out a contradiciton. You said it would be wrong to have Yahweh in the pledge, but God is alright, even though the two words mean the exact same thing. In effect, you imply that it is wrong to have the word "God" in the pledge.And I wasn't labelling you as a jew--at least, not intentionally. I was pointing out what I find odd--christians seem to be more concerned with the ten commandments than with the golden rule, as far as having them placed in courthouses. Odd, I say, because shouldn't they focus on having thier law placed up--the golden rule?There is no problem with having God in the nation. The problem is when you mix politics with religion, and religion with politics. Take a look at the dark ages to begin with. Then look at France and England. Point is, religion and politics should stay separate.And I don't see why you continue to use the Declaration of Independence as prove that God should be let into gov't. Use the constitution, the ultimate law of the US. The Declaration isn't even law, and has no legal standing in our country. The only thing it was used for was to tell Britain--"up yours, you sticking pieces of shit". Edited by kuresu, : No reason given.

---

All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

Is it a voluntary activity? Can the students choose to not be exposed to this ministry? In some schools, yes there is a comparative religions or something similar, and if there is a course like that at your school then I see nothing wrong wtih the group coming in to that course to talk about their religion, along as it is balanced out by other religious grous doing the same. But if you're having a school assembly (like what would happpen if there was an anti-smoking group) to expose all the kids to this ministry then you're using public funds for the promotion of a religion.Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.

---

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

That shouldn't be any problem. The principles don't depend on the names.

---

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

quote:

---

Stop taking Him out

---

You seem to be under the impression that religion was removed from schools by 'godless judges promoting an atheist agenda. This could not be farther from the truth.Each and every state in the union has it's own constitution. The preamble of all mention god; then if you go down to the sections on education they specifically exclude religion from any public schools.lets take new yorks preamble (bold not my doing)now look at the amendment on education http://www.senate.state.ny.us/lbdcinfo/senconstitution.htmlBold mine. So the judges are just ruling on what the constitutions of their states say.

quote:

---

Have you read the story about my kids school?

---

Yes , so take them out of there if it is failing to teach them in the way you feel is appropriate.We did! Florida public schools are failing to teach Florida children.Our Governor and legislation has decided that children need to be taught how to take one particular test. So 8 years ago we enrolled our oldest one in Clearwater Christian. When her sister started first she joined her. Now 16 and 13 respectfully I'm at least assured my daughters are receiving a proper education

They do not mean the exact same thing. There is 365 names for God, in the Christian faith, Yahweh is but one of them. Or, you could just read the Declaration of Independence, and you get a clear picture of why it should be separated.But, our government should not be Godless, and our religion should not be governmentless.One should not run the other, thats all. Separation of church and state, not God and state. It says that and more. It was a precurser for the constitution. It says who we are, and why. It is a Declaration.And if it has no legal standing, then a whole bunch of Americans died for nothing, trying to defend it.

When did I ever say religion was removed from schools?

Well, the Jewish god is considered 'God the father'. However, with the concept of the Trinity, and the insistance that Jesus was part of that eliminates (IMO) of it being the same god.

That is a good question. They can choose not to believe. Not promotion, education of. The school can stand there and say, we are not promoting this, we are just showing what it is. Choosing to follow Jesus is a free choice, and would never be forced on anyone.

You do realize that declaring independence is illegal, right? No matter what country yo are, all of these declarations have no legal standing.In our own civil war, Lincoln refused to recognize that the south had seceded. Britain refused to recognize our separation from them. China does not recognize Taiwan.Have you read the Declaration. The most famous part of it is the preamble--the whole part that says "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.-That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,-That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."What follows is the list of grievances against King George III.What it says about us as a nation is that we won't put up with despots, that we won't put up with people taking away our rights. What it doesn't say is who we are as a nation regarding God. It has "god" in it, but it is not god that is our defining characteristic. It is a love of freedom, equality, justice, and screwing over the poor man (for all you capitalists who can take a joke ).What does it mean to be godless? If we remove official recognition of a specific god from our government? Does that then make all the government workers Godless? Or is when all of the government workers are aethiests? And how does no god in religion affect the public? Does a godless gov't make the people godless?Oh, and one last thing. Okay, so yahweh means God, for it is one of the names of God, that is your claim. It is also you're claim that using yahweh in the pledge is wrong, but using God isn't. But how can that be, if yahweh is but another name for god, as you claim?

---

All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

First you answer my question. If your children are that important to you why don't you put them in a school that teaches them the way you feel is acceptable? Edited by randy feagley, : fix db code

quote:

---

The Power Team is a ministry that preaches the gospel. They go to local schools across the nation. They have been in about 20,000 of them. They are never allowed to mention the word God. They have to teach Christian principals without saying the word Christ or God.

---

Would you support a Wiccan group coming into the schools to teach their principals just so long as they never mentioned The Goddess?How about a Hindu group? Satanist group? Animists? Buddhists?

That wasn't the question. Can they choose to not be exposed to this ministry? So you support Muslims, Hindus, Sihks, Satanists coming into your school and using public money (taxes are paying for the school) to show your children what their religion is? But you're forcing children to be exposed to Jesus. A mandatory school assembly is not a free choice.

---

Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor