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Author Topic:   The Palin Mistake
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5542 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 61 of 140 (488016)
11-07-2008 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by cavediver
11-07-2008 5:04 AM


Re: Republican voters lost the election.
Why do Republicans insist on making themselves such easy targets for ridicule?
Poor Republicans, they can't help it.

This message is a reply to:
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Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5521 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 62 of 140 (488018)
11-07-2008 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by dwise1
11-07-2008 3:50 AM


Re: Republican voters lost the election.
dwise1 writes:
Do you have any concept of what "deploying" means?
Did Biden?

The first lesson of philosophy is that we may all be mistaken. ”Will Durant

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Replies to this message:
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fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5542 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 63 of 140 (488019)
11-07-2008 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Jazzns
11-07-2008 9:30 AM


Re: Republican voters lost the election.
That is of course unless they move to the center.
I think there is a 50/50 chance they will move towards the right instead, depending on which side wins the internal battle that is sure to happen in the republican party. Don't forget to grab the popcorn to better enjoy the show

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5948
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 64 of 140 (488023)
11-07-2008 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Fosdick
11-07-2008 11:52 AM


Re: Republican voters lost the election.
dwise1 writes:
Do you have any concept of what "deploying" means?
Did Biden?
Well, considering that he had used it correctly, ... .

This message is a reply to:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5948
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 65 of 140 (488025)
11-07-2008 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by New Cat's Eye
11-07-2008 11:11 AM


While we're on the subjects of gaffes though, this is from the bottom of your first link:
quote:
Palin’s opponent, Democratic vice presidential nominee Joe Biden, has also committed high-profile gaffes, including claiming in a recent interview that President Franklin D. Roosevelt calmed fears in a TV address at the beginning of the Great Depression. There was no TV in 1929 ” Roosevelt wasn’t president at the time.
Actually, as I recall, Hoover was the first President to be televised. That is to say, before FDR's presidency. And people in Hitler's Germany watched TV (Fernsehen), though I think that was only in Berlin.
Of course, those events did predate TV broadcasting and wide commercial usage (not sure what the setup was for Hoover, probably experimental in what we would now call "closed-circuit TV" and the Nazi TV programming was shown in a theater -- as I recall, one of the German secret weapons towards the end was an operator-controlled guided missile that had a TV camera in its nose).
However, the point does still stand that Biden made a gaffe. FDR's "Fireside Chats" were indeed broadcast on radio, since we did not yet have any TV broadcasting system.

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Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5521 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 66 of 140 (488026)
11-07-2008 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by dwise1
11-07-2008 12:09 PM


Re: Republican voters lost the election.
dwise1 writes:
Well, considering that he had used it correctly, ...
Well, considering that there are two meanings for the word "deploy," per The Oxford Dictionary:
quote:
deploy |diploi|
verb [ trans. ]
move (troops) into position for military action : forces were deployed at strategic locations.
” [ intrans. ] (of troops) move into position for such action : the air force began to deploy forward.
bring into effective action; utilize : they are not always able to deploy this skill.
When I hear about somebody deploying nuclear weapons I think of missiles and bombs in the air, instead of merely moving the nuclear weapons into place. It's ambiguous, and so was Biden. When the U.S. deployed its nuclear weapons against Japan we didn't just "move them into place."

The first lesson of philosophy is that we may all be mistaken. ”Will Durant

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 140 (488028)
11-07-2008 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by dwise1
11-07-2008 12:18 PM


However, the point does still stand that Biden made a gaffe.
Yeah, I was just sayin'.
I don't even really have a problem with people making gaffes. We all say stupid shit from time to time.
And without any context, pointing them out seems fruitless to me (although I can see that others are capable of just believing whatever they read so I see why people do point out the gaffes). For example, if Biden was focusing on calming fears and mis-said "TV" instead of "radio" then its hardly a gaffe at all. On the other hand, if he was focusing on the effects of TV and then said that FDR used TV, then that is pretty stupid, and a false claim on top of it.
But to read that someone said this or that stupid thing is wholly worthless without context, IMHO.
The way people spin quotes is shameful. And so is the way people jump on them and spread the spin around.

This message is a reply to:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2972 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 68 of 140 (488033)
11-07-2008 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Fosdick
11-07-2008 12:28 PM


Re: Republican voters lost the election.
” bring into effective action; utilize : they are not always able to deploy this skill.
It's the use of it in a sentence that gives it context. Look at the way it was used in a sentence,
quote:
bring into effective action; utilize :they are not always able to deploy this skill
Clearly Biden was not using it with this definition. You are forcing ambiguity on it. It is not ambiguous, the statement was clear, and in proper context as per the first definition.
quote:
move (troops) into position for military action : forces were deployed at strategic locations.
” [ intrans. ] (of troops) move into position for such action : the air force began to deploy forward.
When the U.S. deployed its nuclear weapons against Japan we didn't just "move them into place."
That is because we carried the deployment further, but initially they were deployed to a ready state. Then, they carried out the mission.

"All great truths begin as blasphemies"
"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

This message is a reply to:
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Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5521 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 69 of 140 (488040)
11-07-2008 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by onifre
11-07-2008 12:39 PM


Re: Republican voters lost the election.
onfire, all is good in what you say. But just to be a real dick about it I'll point out that the precise definition of "deploy" pertains only to troops and not to nuclear weapons. Are you ready to say that the U.S. has deployed nuclear weapons against Russia just by moving our missiles into Europe?

The first lesson of philosophy is that we may all be mistaken. ”Will Durant

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5948
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 70 of 140 (488041)
11-07-2008 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by New Cat's Eye
11-07-2008 12:33 PM


The way people spin quotes is shameful. And so is the way people jump on them and spread the spin around.
Agreed. And it seemed to have been what the McCain campaign mostly consisted of, which I think helped lead to his defeat.

This message is a reply to:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2972 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 71 of 140 (488045)
11-07-2008 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Fosdick
11-07-2008 1:01 PM


Re: Republican voters lost the election.
only to troops and not to nuclear weapons.
Being that im a former Marine(I was 18 and and stupid-lol) I can tell you that troops are considered a weapon. So, yes, if troops mobilize you are deploying them, they are a weapon. If tanks are mobilized you are deploying them as well, they are a weapon. If missiles are placed into position you have deployed them, they are all considered weapons. There is no difference between troops, tanks, or missiles, they are considered US government property and weapons for war, and all 3 get deployed.
[abe:]
You don't need me to say that the US deployed missiles, Russia has already warned us about it.
http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN2...
quote:
Russia warns US of missile deployment
NDTV Correspondent
Thursday, November 06, 2008, (Moscow)
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier has said Russia was sending out the 'wrong signal', after Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said that he would deploy missiles in Russia's Baltic Sea territory, in response to US missile defence plans in eastern Europe.
Russian President Dmitri A Medvedev in his first state of the nation address on Wednesday, had greeted his future American counterpart president-elect Senator Barack Obama, with a promise to place short-range missiles on Russia's western border if Washington proceeds with its planned missile defense systems in Eastern Europe.
In a speech to the federal assembly, Mr Medvedev noted that Russia has 'no inherent conflict with America' and invited the new administration to start afresh with Moscow.
I would like to add though, if you notice the beauty of American euphemisms, Russia was going deploy missiles in response to our missile defence plans in eastern Europe. It should read "Russia deploys missiles in reaponse to the US missile deployment in eastern Europe". We didn't want the US to sound like the aggressors though.
Edited by onifre, : added russian article

"All great truths begin as blasphemies"
"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2534 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 72 of 140 (488052)
11-07-2008 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by fallacycop
11-07-2008 11:58 AM


Re: Republican voters lost the election.
Historically, the GOP becomes more conservative after they lose. This time is shaping up to be no different.
Conservatives Cite Defeats as Rebuke of Moderates - The New York Times
""The moderate wing of the Republican Party is dead,” L. Brent Bozell, the founder of the Media Research Center, a conservative watchdog group, told reporters on a conference call after the meeting."
"“I don’t think any of us are going to shed any tears over losing Chris Shays,” Mr. Appell, said. Mr. Shays, a Republican Congressman from Connecticut, has long drawn the ire of conservatives for his left-leaning views."
So their reaction is to move further to the fringe. Unfortunately, it seems to work (Taft, Reagan, Gingrich, etc). A succesful Obama presidency could hopefully ameliorate such success.

This message is a reply to:
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5105 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 73 of 140 (488064)
11-07-2008 2:24 PM


Palin Aide; Nafta/Africa Mishaps untrue
http://elections.foxnews.com/...s-campaign-charges-sickening
Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 74 of 140 (488068)
11-07-2008 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by dwise1
11-07-2008 1:05 PM


The way people spin quotes is shameful. And so is the way people jump on them and spread the spin around.
Agreed. And it seemed to have been what the McCain campaign mostly consisted of,...
Meh, I didn't see much of it. Although, admittedly, I stay away from the news.
But really....mostly!?
which I think helped lead to his defeat
I'm sick of hearing that McCain lost rather than hearing that Obama won. It seems Obama really wasn't a good candidate, its just that his opposition was so bad

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Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5521 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 75 of 140 (488069)
11-07-2008 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by onifre
11-07-2008 1:22 PM


Re: Republican voters lost the election.
onfire writes:
Being that im a former Marine(I was 18 and and stupid-lol).
I wish I had joined the Marines when I was 18 instead of becoming a stupid frat boy. Having never been deployed thusly, I must concede to the rest of your cogent post about the meaning of deployment. And I fervently hope that VP-elect Biden knows the difference.

The first lesson of philosophy is that we may all be mistaken. ”Will Durant

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by onifre, posted 11-07-2008 1:22 PM onifre has replied

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