Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Having it both ways (Chinese abortion policy & Pro-choice/life considerations)
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 16 of 59 (397313)
04-25-2007 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by riVeRraT
04-25-2007 9:22 AM


irony? what the fuck are you talking about.
really. do you think before you hit that submit reply button, or do you just kind paste in some random crap and go with it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by riVeRraT, posted 04-25-2007 9:22 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 17 of 59 (397314)
04-25-2007 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Taz
04-25-2007 12:33 PM


i'm sure there's a huge number of unregistered women, but as a student researcher with no visa (and probably no likelihood of getting one since my own government is bound to put me away for being dangerous everntually and china would never let me in.) i can't build an interview database. but there's enough misunderstanding with the one-child policy to go around as it is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Taz, posted 04-25-2007 12:33 PM Taz has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 18 of 59 (397320)
04-25-2007 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Hyroglyphx
04-25-2007 2:59 AM


Re: It's not really that hard to understand.
The issue with China forcing abortions to lessen the amount of children being born is always an issue that is concerning to pretty much all parties involved. Both Pro-Choice and Pro-Life is unified on this one aspect. Both parties seem to be in agreement that it is a moral injustice
Well, this is what Pat Robertson had to say about it:
quote:
"I don't agree with it," Robertson said. "But ... they've got 1.2 billion people, and they don't know what to do. If every family over there was allowed to have three or four children, the population would be completely unsustainable.... They're doing what they have to do."
Not much moral outrage there.
How can you in one instance say that a fetus is not a human being at all with no rights available to them, and yet, hypocritically cry foul ball because more female non-humans are being killed at a higher rate than male non-humans? That makes no sense whatsoever.
It is exactly like saying that you have a right under the First Amendment to say any irrational thing that comes out of your mouth, but criticizing you when you do so.
The silly thing is that you think that you are going to "force[ ] proponents of abortion to face the humanity of their decision...," as if nobody who has ever had to make the choice or thought about the issue has done so. This displays your arrogance, the apparent belief that anyone who disagrees with you simply hasn't been "forced" to look at it correctly and once they do, they will necessarily agree with you. It doesn't work that way, Binky. I've spent a great deal of time thinking of abortion and its consequences, and come to my conclusion. For you to presume that I just haven't given it enough thought and you can bring me to my senses with one question on a forum board is rather insulting.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Hyroglyphx, posted 04-25-2007 2:59 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by macaroniandcheese, posted 04-25-2007 4:26 PM subbie has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 19 of 59 (397363)
04-25-2007 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by subbie
04-25-2007 1:38 PM


Re: It's not really that hard to understand.
For you to presume that I just haven't given it enough thought and you can bring me to my senses with one question on a forum board is rather insulting.
but if i pass a law in south carolina to emotionally abuse you and force you to view an ultrasound of your BABY, i can. cause that's ethical.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by subbie, posted 04-25-2007 1:38 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by subbie, posted 04-25-2007 5:24 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 20 of 59 (397372)
04-25-2007 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by macaroniandcheese
04-25-2007 4:26 PM


Re: It's not really that hard to understand.
but if i pass a law in south carolina to emotionally abuse you and force you to view an ultrasound of your BABY, i can. cause that's ethical.
Ok, rather confused here. I can't begin to imagine why you felt it necessary to direct that comment to me, but I'll address it nonetheless.
That's bullshit, because such a law assumes that the pregnant woman hasn't fully considered the issue of abortion and presumes that the state must tell her what information she must consider before making her decision.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by macaroniandcheese, posted 04-25-2007 4:26 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by macaroniandcheese, posted 04-25-2007 5:41 PM subbie has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 21 of 59 (397376)
04-25-2007 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by subbie
04-25-2007 5:24 PM


Re: It's not really that hard to understand.
sarcasm mostly.
i know <3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by subbie, posted 04-25-2007 5:24 PM subbie has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 22 of 59 (397480)
04-26-2007 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by macaroniandcheese
04-21-2007 2:06 PM


Linear Solution, Complex System, Pandora's Box
brennakimi:
in my research, there are no such policies.
Interesting that this topic opened as new reports of forced abortions emerge in Guanxi Provice:
NPR Story
Cases Of Forced Abortions Surface In China : NPR
families were previously only permitted one child (see my explanation in the above post). how they decided to limit their births is up to them.
The government denies supporting 'forced' abortions and sterilisations, true. Coerced abortions and sterilisations by the millions, though, are built into the system. The government does not even bother to deny this.
China observers know the Party's official line is often at odds with reality. Its official disapproval of 'forced' abortions under its rule is no exception. Local officials don't go forcing abortions on women as late as eight or nine months pregnant in the absence of incentive to do so. They belong to the same Party as, and were appointed to their posts by, the same national leaders who say they disapprove.
National Party officials set and enforce quotas--strictly. They aren't very curious about how their provincial officials meet those quotas any more than they are curious about how individual couples do. Figuring out how to cope is a responsibility of those further down the ladder.
For all the official 'disapproval' of forced abortions, journalists who expose the practice get much harsher treatment than the Party officials they expose.
Chen Guangchenn
News: Breaking stories & updates - The Telegraph
however, any higher parity children are not killed, simply taxed.
The exorbitant amount of money families are obliged to pay is not a 'tax.' It is a fine. The family has committed a crime. With that the family's problems only begin.
Children beyond one are denied official recognition in China. They can get no government ID card in a country where nearly all services are socialized. For all but the wealthy that means no education, no housing, no banking, no employment. Until recently it meant no access to health care; today they may be admitted to a hospital upon payment of huge fees. These individuals are completely dependent on their families and communities for support.
The 'one-child-per-family rule' is a classic example of a linear solution imposed on a complex system. The approach has given rise to a host of unintended results that continue to play out. One of them has been noted: the disproportionate number of males to females in the population. A number of social plagues follow from this aspect of it alone.
there have been local abuses, but there is no national policy resembling this draconian suggestion.
'Draconian' is, sadly, a fair description of the whole business.
The China Digital Times (UC-Berkeley) provides an excellent omnibus roundup of news about China. I highly recommend the free e-mail subscription service to those who are interested in following events.
A few links of interest in this discussion:
Main Site
China Digital Times (CDT) - Covering China from Cyberspace
Politics
Politics and oil mix in Russia-China talks - China Digital Times (CDT)
Gender Imbalance
Page not found - China Digital Times (CDT)
See also:
Radio Free Asia: Headline Search 'Forced Abortions'
Search Results forced abortions « Radio Free China
_____
Edited by Archer Opterix, : url.
Edited by Archer Opterix, : typo repair

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by macaroniandcheese, posted 04-21-2007 2:06 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by macaroniandcheese, posted 04-29-2007 10:54 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied
 Message 54 by Archer Opteryx, posted 05-22-2007 6:13 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 23 of 59 (397573)
04-26-2007 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Wounded King
04-25-2007 10:07 AM


Do you think we can set up some sort of evangelical camp to convert them to being gay?
Is that even necessary? Just look at what happens to men in prison. It should be a natural biological course. Who knows, maybe they will all evolve, and start reproducing out of the anus or something.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Wounded King, posted 04-25-2007 10:07 AM Wounded King has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Taz, posted 04-26-2007 4:48 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 24 of 59 (397579)
04-26-2007 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by riVeRraT
04-26-2007 4:07 PM


Having gay sex does not necessarily make you gay.
Who knows, maybe they will all evolve, and start reproducing out of the anus or something.
I don't know if youre trying to be funny, sarcastic, or serious, I'm going to preemptive strike. This isn't how evolution work.
For example, if you flap your arms to try to fly and your children and children's children all do the same thing, you guys are still not going to be able to fly.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by riVeRraT, posted 04-26-2007 4:07 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by riVeRraT, posted 04-26-2007 11:08 PM Taz has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 25 of 59 (397628)
04-26-2007 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Taz
04-26-2007 4:48 PM


Having gay sex does not necessarily make you gay.
{male perspective}...you could make love to a thousand women, but suck one cock,,,,fag for life!
This isn't how evolution work.
Sure it is.
Ant eaters grew long snouts so they could reacht the food.
There are wasp's? in africa that have penis's longer than their body, so they could reach the females opening, out of necessity. As a matter of fact, they can't even get to their mate without the help of some ants.
It only stands to reason (adds a few million years) that eventually men would reproduce, or become asexual.
Shit, if a spider could insert a probe into a cock roachs brain and steer it like a limo, anything is possible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Taz, posted 04-26-2007 4:48 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by kuresu, posted 04-26-2007 11:20 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 35 by macaroniandcheese, posted 04-29-2007 11:30 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 26 of 59 (397631)
04-26-2007 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by riVeRraT
04-26-2007 11:08 PM


Sure it is.
Ant eaters grew long snouts so they could reacht the food.
This alone stands as evidence that you know jack about how evolution works. shame, really. You've nearly been here three years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by riVeRraT, posted 04-26-2007 11:08 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by riVeRraT, posted 04-26-2007 11:38 PM kuresu has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 27 of 59 (397638)
04-26-2007 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by kuresu
04-26-2007 11:20 PM


IT was a joke, but time and time again, I watch discovery, and national geaographic explorer, and they mention how these species gorws big teeth so they can eat, and that species grows wings so they can fly, and the like.
Unless these channls are wrong, they paint a picture of things evolving out of a need sometimes. What I wonder is, how the heck does a living being know how to do that?
Are discovery and national geographic explorer, the televangilists of the scientific community?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by kuresu, posted 04-26-2007 11:20 PM kuresu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Taz, posted 04-26-2007 11:46 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 29 by kuresu, posted 04-26-2007 11:46 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 28 of 59 (397646)
04-26-2007 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by riVeRraT
04-26-2007 11:38 PM


riverrat writes:
Are discovery and national geographic explorer...
Remember that they belong to a group of greedy americans called the media. They're going to do everything they can to get people to watch, and that includes giving out half-truths, presenting strawman, and adding "spices" to the information for better taste. If learning the right stuff is as easy as turning on the tv, I say all college professors should be burned alive for making the rest of us pay with our arms and legs to attend their classes and go through many sleepless nights trying to study and do homework problems.
Added by edit.
I might as well add to my rant.
If gay people indeed act like the way the media portrays gay people, do real straight people act like those idiots on Desperate Housewives?
Edited by Tazmanian Devil, : No reason given.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by riVeRraT, posted 04-26-2007 11:38 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 29 of 59 (397647)
04-26-2007 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by riVeRraT
04-26-2007 11:38 PM


if that's the picture they are painting, they are quite wrong.
we don't evolve things for a "need" per se. It's not like I think, hey, I need a more effective digestive system so I can digest cellulose, and then go out and do it.
evolution is not directed in that sense.
I watch discovery, and national geaographic explorer, and they mention how these species gorws big teeth so they can eat, and that species grows wings so they can fly, and the like.
Something tells me you're wrong on what they're telling, but hey, the next time you see a program that says this, give me the name of it and the station so I can check it out.
And we're getting quite off topic

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by riVeRraT, posted 04-26-2007 11:38 PM riVeRraT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Taz, posted 04-26-2007 11:51 PM kuresu has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 30 of 59 (397649)
04-26-2007 11:51 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by kuresu
04-26-2007 11:46 PM


kuresu writes:
And we're getting quite off topic
This is the coffee house, meaning I can rant away all I want.
FREE TIBET!!!
{ABE by Adminnemooseus:
I have director status, so I can insert into this message:
Tazmanian Devil is a weenie!
Now, back to the real topic, which is abortion policy in China.}
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : See above.

Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by kuresu, posted 04-26-2007 11:46 PM kuresu has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024