The Dangers of Secularism

Would you say that personal arrogance would be a factor?Someone convinced of their {opinion\understanding\worldview} coupled with conviction that they should lead others away from paths of error?Yes it can be steeped in religious, or atheistic or "class" beliefs, but it seems to me that all dictators feel they should naturally be leaders.shwubbya is no different there. I wonder if we wouldn't be better served by having say 100 candidates drawn by a lottery that then go through an "american idol" election, where they would have to answer certain positions town-hall stylejust some loose thoughts, offered freely ... {{edited to show relevance of comments to topic points raised by the topic author}}This message has been edited by RAZD, 05*15*2005 08:19 PM

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

do you know of a place where communism is actually practiced?as oppossed on oligarchy dictatorship that pretends to be communist?there are socialist countries, and they have no particular problem with allowing believers to practice their beliefs.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

still OT? what's the last line in the original post?

and they are more a commune within a country rather than a country, yes?it is easier for a commune imho, because you have a smaller group to work with, membership is voluntary (at least for the first generation) and so committed to the process, and you have external resources that don't require political interactions.I sometimes wonder how many communes are still extant in the US, for yes, that is more of a "pure" commune-ism.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

some of the more radical mormon towns might fit such a structure, but it seems to me that they have dropped off the map.it seems to me that if christians wanted a christian society with christian teaching that this would be the path to go.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

so therefor the theocracies that have resulted in "Totalitarianism, Tyranny and Murder IS Communism" such as not only muslim states like Iran, but the Christian ones of the inquisition?fascinating circular reasoning, faith.I think that you take your definition of communism from the experience of countries claiming to use communism rather than look at the reality.Then you use that experience to justify your opinion of communism.can you tell me now the teachings of christ are incompatable with communism? better tell the priests in south america.can you tell me how communism is really anything more than a system of economy and not really a government (the goevernment is, after all, supposed to dissolve in a fully established communist country).enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

really? does one have to be a marxist to understand that there is a very real difference between the state that marx envisaged and the state that was realized in russia, or china, and that the difference is due to the totalitarian dictatorships that seized power under the name of communismin reality they are no different from other dictatorships in the abuse of power, so why is the abuse of power the fault of communism?

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

and all absolute statements are false seriously though, what marx proposed was not a political system but a goal beyond politics.I would say that the biggest failure in his concept involves the lack of government vision to encourage the necessary political steps between {current existence} and {future utopia} -- he didn't see what would happen in the political vacuum. and that is when oligarchy stepped in.it's not a big step to get from "I know what's good for you" to "I really know what's good for me" government.at it's heart communism is not a form of government but a form of economy.enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

what the heck is a pseudoreligion?

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

in the ultimate form there is no planner.thanksyes it is off topic to a degree, but that is inherent in the problem of "secular" as "atheist" when it can just as easily be "agnostic" or "your choice"secular just means (checks dictionary):# Worldly rather than spiritual.
# Not specifically relating to religion or to a religious body.And one thing governements are is worldly ... (ducks)

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

or you have to be deceived by hard line conservative reactionaries that are endangered by any encroachment on their capitalist greed power systems.come on - look at the reality and not the false image perpetuated in order to make communism dangerous to the us and thus to help justify the cold war.russia was a totalitarian oligarchy, and that is the source of the "incredibly bloody track record" that is no different from the "incredibly bloody track record" of other dictatorships (like saddam and some other US "allies") as opposed to those of free countries (like france?) in the "good" war against "evil" communism.enjoy.

well take a rest for a couple of days then. work on a new topic proposal to cover this (it is OT here), and then explain how religious communism is possible.enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

lolI was just parodying faiths post

got a citation? I'm aware of abuses against our native {brothers\sisters} but not sure what SCOTUS had to say.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}