The Dangers of Secularism

well not really since the pharohs were gods and the pope is all but god on earth to many. julius ceasar claimed to be divine as did napoleon (i believe) and hitler. there are tons of leaders like that. and some claim to be merely "selected by god". why? because organized religion has a tendency to turn people into sheep and if you invoke divinity, people will do anything you say.

you're mistaking communism for russia. it's not the same and russia was communist in name only. it was a socialist dictatorship. same with north korea. korea persecutes christians because christianity is a western religion and if they let western religion in, them might let western other things in (like capitalism) and they don't want that. same deal with china. communist countries have no government. they don't need one. what about cuba another socialist dictatorship? they don't persecute the bazillions of catholics there. you need to check what you say before you go of half cocked with an agenda. communism based on marxist philosophy is that first the proliteriate (working class) overthrows the property owners who enslave them and set up a socialist government for an interum period in order to set the economy in line until they have achieved a working society and then the government is dissolved when the people are all serving their purposes. the only problem with it is that people tend to be so power hungry that instead of governments dissolving, they become more restrictive. it no longer is communist and it's only socialist in the respect that is has a restrictive economy.it's economic theory not a system of religious war. take a class or two. maybe even read the communist manifesto or other works of marx. then when you know what you're talking about...*fucking typos*This message has been edited by brennakimi, 05-16-2005 04:12 AM

well, i feel i must mention that jews in germany during the first world war survived the economic collapse during the war and the great depression because they lived in a communist type society. communism has little or nothing to do with whether or not there is religious freedom. the point of communism--as i said before--is an economic system of sharing one's talents and communal property. the only thing that would get in the way of true communism in a religious way would be the way the catholic church handles their money and property.marx didn't really invent communism, he just named behaviours already seen in society and predicted that, in the end, they would prevail over capitalism and greed.england has been partially communistic forever. ever hear of how they deal with the grazing fields? they're basically almost public land. there are walls (short stone ones) and fences with gates and anyone is free to wander through the lands and use them as long as they close the gates so farmers don't lose their livestock. i forget now what they call that system, but it's a tribal type communistic tradition.

yes well i save my rancor for those who spout nonsense.

well. hitler called himself a christian i suppose in the manner of the church of jesus christ, christian.staunch nazi race cultists believed they were the decendants of a master race of aliens that had landed here to conquer the earth.

secular morality is not ungrounded. it's grounded in the idea of being a good person because it's the right thing to do, rather than doing the right thing because otherwise god will send you to hell. but then there was a whole thread on that.

yes well the reason it happened that way in russia is because they forced it to happen and they did it too soon. it was supposed to be long after industrialization. russia wasn't an industrialized nation then really. the main work force was peasant farmers. but the government championed the industry worker and marched the farmers off into siberia.but the main point is that russia wasn't a communist country. it simply wasn't. i ercognize that communism probably wouldn't work on a national level. but that's still not cause to proclaim that it is the source of all religious animosity demonstrated in russia. it had nothing to do with it. if only because russia wasn't communist.This message has been edited by brennakimi, 05-16-2005 09:42 PM

i quit.

it only undercuts my point if you are correct that there is no right. there are laws which govern everything in the universe. how is humanity any different?example. both matter and energy are conserved. life is the merging of these two things. how does that make it not wrong to block the momentum of a life?it seems to me that one needn't be a relativist simply because one is godless. there are correct answers in math problems. no, i don't suppose we can know any authority on it, but since when has human knowledge about the universe changed how it works?

ehi'm just kind of entertaining ideas. i can't really imagine a world without an objective but that's ok. i do feel that governments should be run in a fairly relativist manner, but not entirely. cause then you have problems.

i do support a secular government.by problems i mean anarchy. by fairly i meant with defined and precise laws immaterial of a person's original culture. i.e. there was some japanese lady in california who was left by her husband. she was arrested after killing her children and i think was about to kill herself. this is an honor policy in japan that arose in more traditional times when there would be no one to care for them if they got abandoned and it would be better than dying of starvation. however, it is illegal here and she should not be given a lax sentence just because she had good intentions... it's kind of like not prosecuting a fundie for murdering an abortion doctor because he thought he was saving lives.i wasn't suggesting a religious-based government, just an unwavering one.

yes but isn't 'we should protect the rights of the people' a moral statement?i wasn't suggesting that we go with this government lol.