An amazing story

Their behavior was evil... PERIOD. Shnning is evil and wrong. Also, they are misogynist and bigoted towards women.Her husband was also a bad person. He refused to even try to work out their marriage. His refusal to go to a marriage counselour struck as close-minded and really quite immature. If you can't handle exposure to other ideas, you're faith is worthless. He was in his mid to late twenties. He obviously didn't really love his wife. If beliefs can't atand up to honest questioning what good are they?This message has been edited by Mini_Ditka, 01-06-2006 12:51 AM

Sloppy, badly handled, but evil, no. She should have been counseled by a pastor until it was clear that she rejected all their teachings, and then formally excommunicated when she refused to accept their doctrine. That probably would have been a lot easier on all concerned, including her. You have no idea what you are talking about. A non-Bible based counselor is out of the question for many Christians, including my own church. Her demand was unreasonable, and indicative of where the whole thing was going to end up. I misssed his age if that is so. I thought they were the same age. He may not have loved her as he should have, that could be so, but I didn't read it that way. Well, they did stand up to questioning, didn't they? For everybody but Laura. And I'm recommending better handling of questioning, not recommending suppressing it, aren't I?This message has been edited by Faith, 01-06-2006 01:07 AMThis message has been edited by Faith, 01-06-2006 01:15 AM

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:how dare you proclaim her eternal soul?
you have done this repeatedly, foundlessly. the only thing in the bible about knowing christians is about their fruit.Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.and the fruits follow thusGal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.she demonstrated the ones you question unfailingly until her transition. the rest, you have no room to speculate on. but if the only way to know a christian is by fruit, then you must admitt, she met the criteria.
but really. how dare anyone usurp the sole right of god to select whom his blood shall cleanse? how is that demonstrating humility? how is that demonstrating trust that god knows what he's doing. it's very unsettling to me that you take this position as god's salvation judge. really.

brennakimi,rule 10: Always treat other members with respect. Argue the position, not the person. Avoid abusive, harassing and invasive behavior. Avoid needling, hectoring and goading tactics.

---

as the current subject of the shunning of a calvary chapel member...my former friend's pastor has preached many times on the importance of not cutting people out of your life and how jesus spent time with nasty, awful people and that blocking out people because you think they're bad is wrong... and every time she ignores him.
i think it's a spiritually weak church full of young christians leading other young christians. the bible teaches us to move past the milk to meat. to love god as a trusted father and not as a mother on whom we depend for our very life. i think because of the leadership of young christians, it is prone to failings like cultish behaviors and such. but i do not think it is a necessary result... only a common one.no. he obviously had other priorities than his wife. but people have to understand where their priorities are. it sucks, but people change. yes he probably should have been more flexible... but that would have required a different theology. that's life. that's kind of the deal she signed on for. it was very much her own spiritual journey.
jesus said we must take up our cross and leave our families to serve him. now... perhaps she's an atheist now, but that's all she did. the same thing i'd expect of someone who became a new christian and was turned away by an atheist spouse. you have to hold to your convictions sometimes. in the end, you only really have yourself. people will always fail you.

i see it as a very serious theological issue. maybe it needs a new thread... it's not just directed at faith, but all people who decide 'oh this is what my special group is and if you don't agree with me, then you aren't part of my group immaterial of what the group founder said.' she just happens to be the person who said it most recently. i am arguing the position and i'm even dealing with it by their definitions.

Then start a new thread (as a Proposed New Topic), where you can discuss it in a depersonalized manner, not by addressing it to a member.

---

I read The Spiral Staircase. Karen Armstrong is a scholar of religion. She knows a lot. I've also read some of her historical books about religion. However, "New Agey" might characterize her ideas to some extent. She gave up being a nun not because of disbelief but because of a nervous breakdown. Years later she found out she had epilepsy.Some of her ideas are interesting, although any discussion of them is not appropriate here. But what I found that related to "Laura" is that Karen Armstrong is an incorrigible soul-searcher, in the good sense I suppose. Also, her life style has remained "nun-like" throughout her life. She couldn't get "God" off her mind, although this time He was a subject for research rather than an object of worship. And she started having these "religious" experiences in the midst of her studies--religion in a library, so to speak.This message has been edited by robinrohan, 01-06-2006 05:49 AMThis message has been edited by robinrohan, 01-06-2006 05:58 AM

That makes me curious enough to check her out some time.

During a day of errands I stopped by the bookstore and hung out a while skimming four of her books -- or two really, the autobiographies, as her studies of religion are boring to me. Many similarities with Laura. It's an odd experience for me to read people who started out religious becoming atheists since it was completely the other way around for me, and all the arguments they use, the "insights" they think they've gained upon leaving their former life behind, seem pathetically empty to me -- artificial (speaking of artificial), contrived, completely unpersuasive -- so exactly what I was only too happy to leave behind. But then it's obvious that my arguments have the same effect on the Opposition, such as at EvC. Truly two different worlds. Nevertheless, it's interesting to get a glimpse into the thinking of the traffic in the opposite direction from my own.This message has been edited by Faith, 01-06-2006 07:43 PM

Personally I would contend that some people can handle reality and some can't....But Faith, I agree that it's cool to get a glimpse into the mind of someone totally differrent.From my perspective, she seemed SO brainwashed by her church that she broke down because of the conflict with reality. She really believed all that stuff and when she learned to truth it crushed her world. I'm sure you see it the other way around.Very interesting for all.

Had to get that little jab in didn't you. And what is that contention based on? Nothing but your bias against religion, certainly not on knowing the people personally, to know what of reality they can "handle" or not. Why do people always have to attack others' motives? Argue the argument, leave personalities alone.Try BELIEVING people when they tell you their reasons for their actions. Sheesh.P.S. YOu seem to be addressing the Laura story, not the Karen story.This message has been edited by Faith, 01-06-2006 07:47 PMThis message has been edited by Faith, 01-06-2006 07:49 PM

Okay, but the fact that she was a nun carries some weight.

How so?

She went through a lot. She sacrificed for her beliefs.