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Author Topic:   Guilty feelings.
Dr Jack
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Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 7 of 46 (462511)
04-04-2008 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Larni
04-04-2008 12:13 PM


It's negative reinforcement.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 11 of 46 (462519)
04-04-2008 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Larni
04-04-2008 1:19 PM


My bad. I bungled my terminology. Positive punishment, apparently, is the right term.
Edited by Mr Jack, : No reason given.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 12 of 46 (462520)
04-04-2008 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Dr Jack
04-04-2008 1:55 PM


Although, come to think, of it. Negative reinforcement probably also comes into it, as you can relieve guilt by making things right.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 28 of 46 (462648)
04-06-2008 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Larni
04-04-2008 2:45 PM


However, isn't this a reaction to a previous expression of guilt?
Yes. Why do you think that matters?

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 31 of 46 (462655)
04-06-2008 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Larni
04-06-2008 3:42 PM


So what makes guilt so aversive?
Guilt is aversive, like other aversive mental states, because that is its functional purpose. Hunger is unpleasant because it exists to make us eat, ditto thirst and drinking, ditto tiredness and sleep, ditto pain and avoiding harm. Guilt, if I'm right, serves the same purpose for social and moral enforcement.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 37 of 46 (462710)
04-07-2008 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Larni
04-07-2008 1:16 PM


Re: Software vs hardware
But it's bullshit! The brain absolutely, categorically, does not work like that. There is not software running on hardware in the brain; you cannot pull apart an analysis of how things work like that.
Or, at least, there is absolutely no sign of it. Everything we know about the function of the brain shows no differentiation between physiology and mental process. For example, patients with OCD show characteristic pathology of the brain. You can solve their symptoms by giving them prozac and, if you do, their brains return to normal. However, you can also solve their problems by given them Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and, sure enough, the physiology of the brain changes. If you are happy, you can see it in the brain; if you are sad, you can see it in the brain, and so on, and so forth. Right down to the functional physics and chemistry of the neurons, and the wash of brain chemicals, none of them show any hardware/software divide.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 41 of 46 (462724)
04-08-2008 5:32 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Son Goku
04-07-2008 9:10 PM


Re: Surprising stuff.
The computer analogy is useful in understanding some features of how the brain works but don't take it too literally.
Apparently, with the brain you cannot point to some specific level of neural activity and say "this is the level with the problem" and classify these levels into software and hardware.
I defy you to find a single case where you can do that; or someone has successfully done that. One.
In the brain, there isn't any such distinction, when you think, the biology changes, when you remember, it rewires the neurons. Even when you see, you change your brain (not much, these days, but it happens), your visual system remolds itself learning from what you see. This is fundamentally different from how a computer works; in a computer you have hardware which is distinguished by being fixed and immalleable, and software that runs on top of the hardware. It the brain you don't.

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