Guilty feelings.

I can't believe you're even asking. http://www.vin.com/...archPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00311.htm Review : The Neurobiological Basis of Anxiety and Fear: Circuits, Mechanisms, and Neurochemical Interactions
The Neuroscientist, Vol. 4, No. 1, 35-44 (1998)What else could anxiety (or any emotion, for that matter) possibly be?

You misunderstand.I know that anxiety is a physical reaction followed by cognition.Guilt however is the issue here.Again can you substantiate that guilt is as physical reation.

Mary L. Phillipsa, Wayne C. Drevetsb, Scott L. Rauchc and Richard Laned, Neurobiology of emotion perception I: the neural basis of normal emotion perceptionnext term, Biological Psychiatry, Volume 54, Issue 5, 1 September 2003, Pages 504-514Shin et al 2000. Activation of anterior paralimbic structures during guilt-related script-driven imagery. Biol Psychiatry 48 (2000), pp. 43-50. Hidehiko Takahashia, Noriaki Yahatac, Michihiko Koedad, Tetsuya Matsudae, Kunihiko Asaib and Yoshiro Okubo, Brain activation associated with evaluative processes of guilt and embarrassment: an fMRI study, NeuroImage, Volume 23, Issue 3, November 2004, Pages 967-974Edited by molbiogirl, : another paper

I see this issue here:You are of course correct that pretty much any negative emotion is going to involve the paralimbic system. But then to be fair any cognition or emotion is going to have to involve the brain: without the brain there is nothing.My point about the physical reaction vs a cognitive reation is that (given that all cognition requires the brain- a physical entity) cognition is a mental process (occuring of course in the brain - a physical structure) where as anxiety is a psysical process (hormonal in this case).I guess I could be charged with pedantry here but I think that cognitive and physical are different.By the way, can I call you when I have my next essay? You ninja lit rev skills are strong!

Larni, the structures of the brain don't just light up "all by themselves".Neurochemistry is responsible for all emotions, including guilt.And were I willing to dedicate another 1/2 hour to poking around scholar.google, I could tell you exactly which hormones are responsible for guilt.

I know this.Cognition cannot take place without a brain in which it can take place in.As this is true for all thought we can cancel this physical aspect out.Compare thinking of cows with thinking anxious thoughts:With thinking of cows there is no physiological reaction beyond that which takes place in the brain for thought to occur.Thinking of having a fight provokes a visceral reaction mediated by adrenaline.I'm sorry if spending yet another half hour doing research is a pain for you.I meant what I said as compliment. I'm sorry it appears not to have been taken as such.

No offense taken, Larni.I'm still confused, tho.You said "whereas" anxiet/guilt is hormonal. Cognition is too.Neurotransmitters are hormone/peptide/amino acid/monoamine: I guess I still don't know what distinction you are drawing.The only difference between guilt and cognition is the chemical used to signal the appropriate part of the brain.Edited by molbiogirl, : No reason given.Edited by molbiogirl, : sp

Do you mean something like this? These are self reported "guilt symptoms" from here:http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=2007112513484...

Thats exactly what I mean.These however are physiological reactions that are associated with anxiety.Guilt is different.When you feels guilt does: Nervousness, blinking eyes, sweating, heavier breathing, higher heart rate, shaking, voice breaks when talking, cannot sit still, hands tremble, lips quiver......Feeling nauseous, tired and unable to get on with the day........Sweating, heavier breathing, perhaps blushing......happen to you?

I get queasy, yes. But that's not important. One person's experience is right next to useless.There are a bunch of papers in the literature that report similar findings, however.Guilt is very much like anxiety/embarrassment/shame. All share "physical" symptoms.ABE:Just to clarify, the physical "symptoms" of guilt are reported in the literature. As are those for anxiety/embarrassment/shame. There doesn't seem to be any question that guilt manifests itself "physically". Index of / http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/...act/109629662/ABSTRACTThis paper specifically mentions serotonergic and noradrenergic pathways as those responsible. Onset of action for duloxetine 60 mg once daily: double-blind, placebo-controlled studies, Journal of Psychiatric Research, Volume 39, Issue 2, March 2005, Pages 161-172 Role of Physical Symptoms in Diagnosis of Depression in the Elderly, Geriatrics and Aging, Volume 5, Number 8, October 2002, Pages 18-21.Edited by molbiogirl, : No reason given.

Index of /I could find nothing in this refering to guilt having physiological symptoms. Did you even read it? Anxiety and shame are not guilt.Tangeny, J.P. (1996)CONCEPTUAL AND METHODOLOGICAL ISSUES IN THE ASSESSMENT OF SHAME AND GUILT. Behav. Res. Ther. Vol. 34, No. 9, pp. 741-755So far you have shown only the psysiological symptoms anxiety. Yes. Again I say: I KNOW THIS.Forget the brain. Every act of cognition has a correlates within the brain. This is a given.Guilt does not have the same resultant physilogical reactions as anxiety; guilt does not trigger facial distortion as does disgust. GUILT IS NOT DEPRESSION! My bold.Exactly what physical symptoms do you think they mean when they refer to depression here? Cerebral blood flow? Or motor retardation (for example)?Anyway GUILT IS NOT DEPRESSION! Webb, M et al (2007) Shame, guilt, symptoms of depression, and reported history of psychological maltreatment. Child Abuse & Neglect Volume 31, Issues 11-12, November-December 2007, Pages 1143-1153

It's in the quote, Larni. I didn't say they were. I said the symptoms for all 4 (anxiety/shame/embarrassment/guilt) are alike. No. The above quote show that guilt and shame have physiological symptoms.Granted guilt is not distinguished from shame. I didn't say that is was. Guilt is a part of depression.In my previous post, guilt is not separated from the rest of the feelings associated with depression, but I thought it important to include that study as it pinpoints the neurotransmitters that produce the pain.Guilt isn't often studied by neurobiologists. As Hidehiko noted in the quote I posted earlier: I didn't write that. Stahl et al did.And you ignored the rest of the quote. Good find!But, unfortunately, those findings are not consistent with others in the literature. Wright, F., O'Leary, J., Balkin, J., Shame, Guilt, Narcissism, and Depression: Correlates and Sex Differences, Psychoanal. Psychol., 6:217-230. Alesci, Salvatore, Major Depression Is Associated with Significant Diurnal Elevations in Plasma Interleukin-6 Levels, a Shift of Its Circadian Rhythm, and Loss of Physiological Complexity in Its Secretion: Clinical Implications. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism. 90(5):2522-2530, May 2005.Please note that guilt was measured separately from the other emotions. Kayhan Ghatavi et al, Defining guilt in depression:next term a comparison of subjects with major depression, chronic medical illness and healthy controls, Journal of Affective Disorders, Volume 68, Issues 2-3, April 2002, Pages 307-315.Now. About the physiological symptoms of guilt. Facets of Emotion, Klaus R. Scherer.Please note that although the physiological symptoms of guilt are less prominent than those of fear, they do exist!

Yes. Why do you think that matters?

You honestly think these are symptoms of guilt? You don't think this is somatization? Yet you are yet to present them. The function of a neurotransmitter is not a symptom.That's like saying a symptom of having a cold is a virus. But you would agree that you can experience guilt sans depression and vis versa? I don't understand. Why is this disctinction relevent? Again with the depression. Irrelevent. Now your talking! 19 year old psychoanalytic 'research'. Why do you keep harping on about depression?When you said cognitive is physical I assume you meant that guilt has physical symptoms. You have still not presented them.

Good point: I suppose it does tell us that a) guilt is aversive and b) by avoiding guilt we avoid the aversive state.So what makes guilt so aversive?