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Author
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Topic: The Clergy Project
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Funkaloyd
Inactive Member
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Message 91 of 151 (263953)
11-28-2005 9:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 74 by DorfMan
11-28-2005 9:31 AM
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Re: Definition of Christian
I'm not saying that there's no way to define "Christian", just that Faith's definition is, well, wrong. And to demonstrate that I'm not just fashionably disagreeing with Faith: Jar's definition is wrong, too. One can ascribe a high status to Jesus and/or his teachings without considering him to be the Saviour/Christ and still be considered a Christian, though the wording might not quite fit.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 74 by DorfMan, posted 11-28-2005 9:31 AM | | DorfMan has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 92 by RAZD, posted 11-28-2005 11:33 PM | | Funkaloyd has replied | | | Message 97 by DorfMan, posted 11-29-2005 10:02 AM | | Funkaloyd has not replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 92 of 151 (263975)
11-28-2005 11:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 91 by Funkaloyd
11-28-2005 9:56 PM
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Re: Definition of Christian
Trying to make Thomas Jefferson a christian (see Jefferson Bible)? He didn't think so.
we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 91 by Funkaloyd, posted 11-28-2005 9:56 PM | | Funkaloyd has replied |
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Funkaloyd
Inactive Member
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Message 93 of 151 (263997)
11-29-2005 2:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 92 by RAZD
11-28-2005 11:33 PM
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Re: Definition of Christian
If he didn't consider himself a Christian, then he most certainly wasn't one. It doesn't matter, though. The religious right will continue to portray Jefferson et al as Christians regardless of reality or the definition used.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 92 by RAZD, posted 11-28-2005 11:33 PM | | RAZD has not replied |
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iano
Member (Idle past 1961 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: 07-27-2005
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Re: Definition of Christian
omni writes: ...and as I've remarked to iano before, my policy is to take people at their word about their religious beliefs/affiliation. But if a person is made a Christian by an act of God (which I suggest is the case), then what a person professes makes little difference to anything. "I'm tall, dark and handsome". Does that mean I am tall dark and handsome? (ps: remind me to send the Acme Get Rich Quik salesrep around to your house will ya? You sound like a good prospect 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 83 by Omnivorous, posted 11-28-2005 12:16 PM | | Omnivorous has replied |
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iano
Member (Idle past 1961 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: 07-27-2005
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Message 95 of 151 (264048)
11-29-2005 8:08 AM
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Reply to: Message 92 by RAZD
11-28-2005 11:33 PM
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Re: Definition of Christian
Razd writes: Trying to make Thomas Jefferson a christian A bit late I would have thought...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 92 by RAZD, posted 11-28-2005 11:33 PM | | RAZD has not replied |
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Omnivorous
Member Posts: 3983 From: Adirondackia Joined: 07-21-2005 Member Rating: 7.0
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Message 96 of 151 (264053)
11-29-2005 8:45 AM
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Reply to: Message 94 by iano
11-29-2005 8:03 AM
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Re: Definition of Christian
iano writes: (ps: remind me to send the Acme Get Rich Quik salesrep around to your house will ya? You sound like a good prospect When he tells me he's a salesman, I'll believe it. Then I'll let the dogs out.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 94 by iano, posted 11-29-2005 8:03 AM | | iano has not replied |
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DorfMan
Member (Idle past 6101 days) Posts: 282 From: New York Joined: 09-08-2005
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Message 97 of 151 (264074)
11-29-2005 10:02 AM
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Reply to: Message 91 by Funkaloyd
11-28-2005 9:56 PM
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Re: Definition of Christian
quote:
One can ascribe a high status to Jesus and/or his teachings without considering him to be the Saviour/Christ and still be considered a Christian
Sure you can. That's the fun of it.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 91 by Funkaloyd, posted 11-28-2005 9:56 PM | | Funkaloyd has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 98 by iano, posted 11-29-2005 10:20 AM | | DorfMan has replied |
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iano
Member (Idle past 1961 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: 07-27-2005
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Message 98 of 151 (264078)
11-29-2005 10:20 AM
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Reply to: Message 97 by DorfMan
11-29-2005 10:02 AM
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Re: Definition of Christian
quote:
One can ascribe a high status to Jesus and/or his teachings without considering him to be the Saviour/Christ and still be considered a Christian
Gandhi was a Hindu-Christian thus One can even believe there was no such person a Jesus and still be considered a Christian (so long as there is one other person to consider them such). Actually .. in that basis one can think whatever one likes about anything a be considered a Christian. Is there anyone there who thinks they aren't a Christian? Well I've got news for you..
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 97 by DorfMan, posted 11-29-2005 10:02 AM | | DorfMan has replied |
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Funkaloyd
Inactive Member
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Message 99 of 151 (264303)
11-29-2005 7:53 PM
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Reply to: Message 94 by iano
11-29-2005 8:03 AM
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Re: Definition of Christian
iano writes: But if a person is made a Christian by an act of God (which I suggest is the case), then what a person professes makes little difference to anything. Unless you have a decent way to test whether a person has been affected by such an act of God (do you?), then we may as well take people's word for it.
iano writes: Gandhi was a Hindu-Christian thus One can even believe there was no such person a Jesus and still be considered a Christian Did Gandhi not believe in the existence Jesus?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 94 by iano, posted 11-29-2005 8:03 AM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 105 by iano, posted 11-30-2005 12:59 PM | | Funkaloyd has replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1425 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 100 of 151 (264306)
11-29-2005 7:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 98 by iano
11-29-2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Definition of Christian
Is there anyone there who thinks they aren't a Christian? Well I've got news for you.. uh oh ... time to cue the "good news" band and warm up the choir .... 
we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 98 by iano, posted 11-29-2005 10:20 AM | | iano has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 104 by DorfMan, posted 11-29-2005 10:05 PM | | RAZD has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 101 of 151 (264317)
11-29-2005 8:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 98 by iano
11-29-2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Definition of Christian
dorfman writes: It seems no one can figure out that what Christian is, it's as defineable as what American is, or Koranist, or - or - or....... well...in one sense, definitions are what an individual makes them out to be. I can say that my car is a horse and call it as such. (It even has horsepower!  ) but I always like to consult Noah....Webster, that is!
Websters writes: def”i”ni”tion \'de-f-"ni-shn\ n 1 : an act of determining or settling 2 : a statement of the meaning of a word or word group; also : the action or process of defining 3 : the action or the power of making definite and clear : clarity, distinctness funkaloyd writes: I'm not saying that there's no way to define "Christian", just that Faith's definition is, well, wrong. And to demonstrate that I'm not just fashionably disagreeing with Faith: Jar's definition is wrong, too. One can ascribe a high status to Jesus and/or his teachings without considering him to be the Saviour/Christ and still be considered a Christian, though the wording might not quite fit. And in the fine tradition of debate, I consider your definition to be wrong. If you don't allow the Spirit to change you, you are not a Christian....the very action of "ascribing high status" to anything or anyone shows that you yourself are still choosing your deities rather than being chosen by them.(Him) For all practical purposes, however, and for the sake of argument, there IS no way to prove or define anything except by common agreement. (common union...communion! Gosh what a concept! This message has been edited by Phat, 11-29-2005 06:39 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 98 by iano, posted 11-29-2005 10:20 AM | | iano has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 103 by DorfMan, posted 11-29-2005 9:59 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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DorfMan
Member (Idle past 6101 days) Posts: 282 From: New York Joined: 09-08-2005
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Message 102 of 151 (264338)
11-29-2005 9:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 98 by iano
11-29-2005 10:20 AM
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Re: Definition of Christian
quote:
in that basis one can think whatever one likes about anything a be considered a Christian.
I can think of myself as Hottentot never ever having been to Hottentotia.
quote:
Is there anyone there who thinks they aren't a Christian? Well I've got news for you..
What is that news you have? Thank you!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 98 by iano, posted 11-29-2005 10:20 AM | | iano has not replied |
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DorfMan
Member (Idle past 6101 days) Posts: 282 From: New York Joined: 09-08-2005
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Message 103 of 151 (264340)
11-29-2005 9:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 101 by Phat
11-29-2005 8:19 PM
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Re: Definition of Christian
quote:
well...in one sense, definitions are what an individual makes them out to be
I like your definition of that definition.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 101 by Phat, posted 11-29-2005 8:19 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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DorfMan
Member (Idle past 6101 days) Posts: 282 From: New York Joined: 09-08-2005
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Message 104 of 151 (264344)
11-29-2005 10:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 100 by RAZD
11-29-2005 7:56 PM
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Re: Definition of Christian
quote:
time to cue the "good news" band and warm up the choir
Didn't you just love the tenor of this statement? (Tenor, the melodic line usually forming the cantus firmus in medieval music) Sweet, eh?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 100 by RAZD, posted 11-29-2005 7:56 PM | | RAZD has not replied |
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iano
Member (Idle past 1961 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: 07-27-2005
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Message 105 of 151 (264452)
11-30-2005 12:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 99 by Funkaloyd
11-29-2005 7:53 PM
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Re: Definition of Christian
funk writes: Unless you have a decent way to test whether a person has been affected by such an act of God (do you?), then we may as well take people's word for it. I don't see how that follows. I don't know so I'll presume. That is a recipe for all kinds of nonsense. You get people saying things like "the survey says Christian are aborting their babies at higher rates than the non-Christian". This may say something about people who call themselves Christians or consider themselves to be Christians...but says nothing about actual Christian. But that is forgotten in the headlines.
Gandhi was a Hindu-Christian thus One can even believe there was no such person a Jesus and still be considered a Christian
Did Gandhi not believe in the existence Jesus? Sorry, the thus referred to the statment prior not to the statement post. My fault. As I understand it Gandhi believed Jesus existed - as a man - not God
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 99 by Funkaloyd, posted 11-29-2005 7:53 PM | | Funkaloyd has replied |
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