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Author Topic:   2/3rds of Americans want creationism taught.
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2915 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 128 of 253 (239634)
09-01-2005 2:49 PM


Creationism should be taught in public schools but not in science class as it is not science. It should be taught in social studies or literature class as part of a curriculum that discusses various creation stories, not just the Genesis one. What 2/3 or even 9/10 of the populace thinks should be taught as science is irrelevant as what is science is not something to be decided by a vote by the general populace but rather by a concensus of scientists, through the peer review process. Creationism or ID fails as science because it cannot pass peer review muster. The fact that one botany professer at a university might be a YECer is not relevant either. He will not be able to publish a paper in a scientific journal advocating creationism. He may be able to publish a paper describing a new plant species or on some aspect of plant physiology as long as he doesn't try to promote unscientific creationist views in it. No one cares what his personal views might be as long as he does not try to promote them as science.

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by randman, posted 09-01-2005 2:53 PM deerbreh has replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2915 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 131 of 253 (239641)
09-01-2005 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by randman
09-01-2005 2:49 PM


Re: here's one
an unresolved problem in theoretical biology
This is not a brilliant argument for design. It is an unresolved biological problem. Otherwise we are just back to the tired old "God of the Gaps" argument. So it is correct not to call this a "creationist paper." Just because a creationist may have written a scientific paper does not make it a "creationist paper" anymore than a paper written by a Roman Catholic is a "Roman Catholic" paper. It is a "creationist paper" if it promotes creationism.

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 Message 127 by randman, posted 09-01-2005 2:49 PM randman has not replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2915 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 133 of 253 (239646)
09-01-2005 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by randman
09-01-2005 2:53 PM


Re: thanks for your honesty
It's refreshing to hear an evolutionist just come out with it and be honest instead of pretending that overtly creationist articles could be accepted instead of dismissed a priori out of hand.
Why should that be "refreshing"? No evolutionist would pretend that creationist articles,overt OR covert, could be accepted in a scientific journal. And why should they? An article on the demon theory of friction would be dismissed a priori out of hand from acceptance in a physics journal, would it not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by randman, posted 09-01-2005 2:53 PM randman has replied

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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2915 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 141 of 253 (239663)
09-01-2005 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by randman
09-01-2005 2:42 PM


Re: Let's vote on the facts?
The truth is you guys are just wrong.
That's a convincing argument.
Clearly there is a host of scientists doing a lot of research, work, etc,...in creationism and ID.
Apparently clearly only to you. A host? My dictionary says a host is a multitude. How many is a multitude? 100, 1000, 5000? How many ID scientists are there outside of the handful at the Discovery Institute and how many creation scientists are there outside of a handful at the Creation Science Institute? And so what if there were a host? "Research, work,etc." does not equate to scientific research. There are people doing research, work, etc. on therapeutic touch therapy, palm reading, and astrology as well but that doesn't make them sciences.

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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2915 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 145 of 253 (239672)
09-01-2005 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by RAZD
09-01-2005 3:18 PM


Re: Let's vote on the facts?
The Creation Research Society (CRS), a scientific society with worldwide membership, is recognized internationally for its firm commitment to scientific special creation.
Note what the CRS leaves out here. "Worldwide membership" but how many members? And who can be a member? Most scientific societies require scientific credentials in the field. You don't just pay your money and you are in. You usually need a M.S. or a Ph.D. or some equivalent or at least are a student getting one of those degrees (and the student status is for a limited time - if you don't get the degree they drop you).
I don't know but my guess is that anybody who signs the loyalty oath and pays the dues is in, regardless of their scientific credentials.

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 Message 137 by RAZD, posted 09-01-2005 3:18 PM RAZD has not replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2915 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 146 of 253 (239676)
09-01-2005 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by randman
09-01-2005 3:15 PM


Re: Let's vote on the facts?
Randman writes:
It's like I say the sky is blue, and you insist it is orange and no amount of data can convince you otherwise.
Pretty good example of projection there, not?
How about if we put it this way?
It's like if I say the theory of evolution is true, and you insist "God did it!" and no amount of data can convince you otherwise.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by randman, posted 09-01-2005 3:15 PM randman has not replied

  
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