Early birds had dino-feet: study

but it can be so much fun ....

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RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
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i thought he meant "abhorent," personally. but i'm never one to point out typos -- ever tried to read one of my posts? lol.

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אָרַח

Just so long as it is not the new Scalia and Alito

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RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
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That's the old softshoe act, alright: I think they go by Scalia and Scalito, now.

.Adminnemooseus

quote:

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An especially well-preserved specimen of Archaeopteryx shows the first known bird had feet like a dinosaur -- made not for perching but for running on the ground

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I remember Alan Feduccia saying that Archaeopteryx was definitely a perching bird. This was used in an AIG article.Is the new specimen conclusive evidence for a ground-inhabiting Archaeopteryx?

So, what do we think? Does this answer the "from-the-ground-up" or "from-the-trees-down" question of how bird flight evolved?

No, and the same to Mr Jack."From the trees down" does not require the evolution of a reversed hallux before wings.

When they're perfectly right, they're known as eggcorns.

Could you elaborate, please? The article quite clearly describes the feet on this specimen as being suited for running on the ground, not perching in trees - is this an inaccurate statement?

No, that's not what I meant. My point was that Archaeopteryx is claimed to be a primitive form. So it is not at all surprising that it should still have features more appropriate to a land-dwelling dinosaur than to a bird. Therefore, the posession of such primitive features doesn't particularly argue for "ground up" rather than "trees down", any more than any other saurian feature does.

I disagree.The "trees down" hypothesis postulates that birds evolved from tree-dwelling dinosaurs, who initially used feathers for gliding in a similar way to flying squirrels today; if this was the case we should expect to see features adapted to tree dwelling (the feet in particular) in basal birds. This isn't the case.

Hold up a bit.You're assuming a lineage which did all its adapting to living in trees before it started to glide/fly. There is no reason why this should be the case.There is a particular reason why we might expect not to see this particular feature developed. The reversed hallux is useful for perching in trees. It is, on the other hand, useless for climbing them. The trees-down hypothesis has Archaeopteryx descended from a tree-climbing dinosaur.Now, the way to check my reasoning would be to find out whether squirrels and the like have a reversed hallux.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Welcome to the fray Hongi. Short answer: no.Longer answer: No, as (1) there are no birds incapable of ground inhabitation, although some (loons, seabirds) are ill-adapted for getting around on the land, but some are also only inhabitants of the ground, and (2) what this is more evidence of, is that a dinosaurian trait was retained in spite of what habitat the critter preferred, and the bird perching feature had not evolved yet.Enjoy.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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not just squirrels but sugar gliders as well -- another "kind" that developed flight.http://www.katiedid.net/differencesgandsfspage.htmlthey have a thumb that flying squirrels lack, but that lack has not impeded the ability of squirrels to climb, nest and perch in trees.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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