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Author Topic:   Finches named for Darwin are evolving
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 4 of 48 (334374)
07-22-2006 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Coragyps
07-22-2006 6:54 PM


Re: This is wonderful evidence for CREATION!
Yup. We humans are still anthropoid apes, and still primates, and still mammals, and still tetrapods. That's what evolution is all about.
Ship, pencil, flower, backpack = all the same. Deification of the god known as Subjectivity by a self anointed prophet - thats what evolution is all about - facts never get in the way when the needs of the atheist are present.
Ray

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 10 of 48 (334620)
07-23-2006 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by RAZD
07-23-2006 12:16 PM


Re: ... wonderful evidence for CREATIONist erroneous assertions ...
Also note the Deist position that the universe was created with everything in place and designed for life to evolve from primordial components does not contradict or clash with the concept of life evolving over time, so this is "wonderful evidence" for Deism.
Define deism as compared to theism and its source ?
Evolution is change in species over time -- precisely what is demonstrated by the finches in question, as noted in the (Science) paper (especially) and referenced in the news article.
We know finch beaks oscillate depending upon weather and conditions = better explained by the ID model ?
RAZD writes:
Further, what you refer to as "Adaptation" is the selection of mutations by Natural Selection. The real mechanisms are Mutation and Selection. One causes variations in the base population (in this case large and small beaks in the finches) and the other selects variations that give a species an advantage (here small beaks in the smaller species to take advantage of seeds the other population is not eating) and it de-selects variations that hinder or harm the species (here the larger beaks):
in RAZDs first comment he writes:
Of course it is, because you can define "creation" any way you want to and make it fit, and re-define it to suit whenever necessary, as in when new evidence contradicts previous asserted positions to the point where they cannot be ignored.
Thus saith RAZD....you are guilty of the same: natural-selection-did-it.
You have simply deified nature and pretended to have spoken for it. The only source for respected prophecy is the Bible. IOW, truth and need has smoked you out and shows that Darwinists take the place of God. We know the same Holy Source says that Lucifer was made into Satan for attempting to take God's place and "be like the Most High".
Ray

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 25 of 48 (335580)
07-26-2006 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by deerbreh
07-25-2006 11:42 PM


Re: This is wonderful evidence for CREATION!
AIG is not a reliable source for describing how Darwin's ideas were developed because they have a vested interest in discrediting Darwin and promoting creationists.
I am no AiG fan for religious reasons, but it is obvious that you have an axe to grind for Darwin, therefore, however logical your observation may be, it is logical that the same criticism must apply to yourself. IOW, one could characterize your bias towards Darwin as the bias of a sweetheart.
Besides, this issue has been hashed over by modern evolutionary biologists, including Stephen J. Gould. They have no vested interest in protecting Darwin.
My previous point well supported.
Gould was the quintessential Darwinist, having wrote Structure of Evolutionary Theory (1000+ pages) and many others defending Darwin tooth and nail.
Since many educated persons deny the Holocaust - your opinion about Gould having no vested interest in protecting Darwin is a yawner.
Ray

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 32 of 48 (336233)
07-28-2006 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Modulous
07-27-2006 12:35 PM


Re: This is wonderful evidence for CREATION!
Amusingly the entire point behind the Structure was summed up in the introduction. Darwin said that many elements of his ideas would be falsified in time, but that the structure of his theory would remain. So it was hardly a book championing Darwin's ideas. Then he spent several pages talking about the difference between 'structures' and 'frameworks' and architecture in general. Its not like all of the book is defending Darwin - its mostly saying he was wrong, but the structure/framework/archway/tree was right.
You are correct - except "Its not like all of the book is defending Darwin - its mostly saying he was wrong".
Gould calls natural selection the "essence" of the "central trunk" on the Tree of Life. If it gets undermined then the whole theory goes. I have written the invulnerable falsification of the central trunk in my forthcoming paper coming very soon.
Ray

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 36 of 48 (336365)
07-29-2006 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by anglagard
07-29-2006 12:34 AM


Re: Invisible Magic Paper
I can't count how many times I have seen/heard this idle threat. Is the concept of the magic paper that never gets published part of YEC ideology?
I am an OEC.
While I understand your point, yet, in reality, it is a legend since ToE was never true to begin with.
Whatever truth that your point does have, is easily explained by the fact that these persons were lying and I am not.
My paper explains, refutes and falsifies the following (uniquely and originally):
1. Natural Selection
2. Human Evolution
3. Macroevolution
4. Theistic Evolution (its better to be an atheist after I am through with these "Christians").
5. Charles Darwin will be taken to task like never before. 99% of everything written on him comes from Darwinists (sweethearts).
The point is, we have falsified ToE and the falsification is invulnerable. I am working as fast as I can but it will be worth the wait - I promise.
Ray Martinez, Protestant Evangelical
Edited by Herepton, : No reason given.
Edited by Herepton, : No reason given.
Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 38 of 48 (336379)
07-29-2006 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by NosyNed
07-29-2006 2:53 PM


Re: Invisible Magic Paper
You're more than 2 months beyond a recent ETA. Would it be better to test out individual parts of your original idea here before you invest a lot of time polishing them?
This is obviously a very good place to get a thorough vetting of anything you want to write; you couldn't ask for a more critical audience.
I toyed with that idea, and after creating a juicy excerpt, I decided that it would preempt the shock that I am thoroughly looking forward to.
Thanks for your interest in the forthcoming work. I am way over due. Do you think I should stop posting here until I am finished ? Just say the word and I will.
Ray
Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 40 of 48 (336384)
07-29-2006 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by arachnophilia
07-29-2006 3:53 PM


Re: Invisible Magic Paper
I started this but stop now. This is all off topic.
ray, i think you're counting your chickens before they hatch. i doubt anyone will be really shocked by anything -- mostly everything you've posted has been run of the mill standard creationist pratts -- and ad-hominem rants fueled by your inabality to refute.
and the reverse of an ad-hominem argument, argument from authority. i hope there's really some content in your paper ray, and not just your standard anti-darwinist schizophrenic rants and hero worship. is it all dr scott teachings, or is there any original thought in it?
cOmmintarrie ezily xplayned wen We reelize the wryter Is a Darwinist and I am a creaTIOist.
rAy
Edited by AdminNosy, : Topic warning.

This message is a reply to:
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