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Author Topic:   Back to the fundamentals
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 16 of 65 (2557)
01-20-2002 10:04 PM


The Geologic Column
and its Implications for the Flood
Copyright 2001 by Glenn Morton
[Last Update: February 17, 2001]
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/geocolumn/
Glenn Morton discusses a section of sedimentary rock in North Dakota, which span the periods of the Phanerazoic.
Moose
------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 17 of 65 (4161)
02-11-2002 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Minnemooseus
01-09-2002 11:39 PM


quote:
Originally posted by minnemooseus:
Upon re-re-reading "Assessing Creationist Stratigraphy with Evidence from the Gulf of Mexico" at:
http://www.trueorigin.org/cfjrgulf.asp :
I'm not really following some of their thought processes, but this paper seems to be more of a support for the "great flood" having not happened. By their own admission, they have not found evidence to support the "great flood" event.
Moose
As I type this, this topic has fallen to 73rd place on the list of active topics - time to revive it.
Creationists - any comments on the above quoted, or any of the messages between the source of the quote and this here message?
I'm looking for the physical evidence of the flood, and in the bigger picture, how the entire geologic record fits into the creation story.
Moose
------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Minnemooseus, posted 01-09-2002 11:39 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by compmage, posted 04-04-2002 2:07 AM Minnemooseus has not replied
 Message 19 by mark24, posted 04-04-2002 4:52 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
compmage
Member (Idle past 5153 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 18 of 65 (8167)
04-04-2002 2:07 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Minnemooseus
02-11-2002 8:24 PM


quote:
Originally posted by minnemooseus:
Creationists - any comments on the above quoted, or any of the messages between the source of the quote and this here message?

It doesn't look as if there are any creationists who feel they have the ability and/or evidence to take you on in this regard.
------------------
I have conquered worlds...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-11-2002 8:24 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 19 of 65 (8170)
04-04-2002 4:52 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Minnemooseus
02-11-2002 8:24 PM


Moose, (or a creationist),
It occurred to me that the iridium layer at the K-T boundary would provide problems for the "flood model". If the layer has a higher concentration of iridium than lava, how did a THIN global layer of iridium rich rock appear in the turbulent waters of the flood?
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-11-2002 8:24 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Quetzal, posted 04-04-2002 9:42 AM mark24 has replied
 Message 25 by TrueCreation, posted 04-20-2002 6:01 PM mark24 has not replied

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5872 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 20 of 65 (8180)
04-04-2002 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by mark24
04-04-2002 4:52 AM


quote:
Originally posted by mark24:
Moose, (or a creationist),
It occurred to me that the iridium layer at the K-T boundary would provide problems for the "flood model". If the layer has a higher concentration of iridium than lava, how did a THIN global layer of iridium rich rock appear in the turbulent waters of the flood?
Mark

Maybe it couldn't run as fast as a smilodon?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by mark24, posted 04-04-2002 4:52 AM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by mark24, posted 04-04-2002 2:23 PM Quetzal has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 21 of 65 (8190)
04-04-2002 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Quetzal
04-04-2002 9:42 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Quetzal:
quote:
Originally posted by mark24:
Moose, (or a creationist),
It occurred to me that the iridium layer at the K-T boundary would provide problems for the "flood model". If the layer has a higher concentration of iridium than lava, how did a THIN global layer of iridium rich rock appear in the turbulent waters of the flood?
Mark

Maybe it couldn't run as fast as a smilodon?

LOL
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Quetzal, posted 04-04-2002 9:42 AM Quetzal has not replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1479 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 22 of 65 (8441)
04-11-2002 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by John Paul
01-04-2002 8:05 AM


quote:
Originally posted by John Paul:
It was a continent splitting up and then some of the pieces crashing into each other forming the mountain ranges we observe today. Also the ocean basins sank and that is where the water went to causing erosion.
What is the data that shows mountain peaks can be formed by the slow & steady plate movements we observe today? Wouldn't the rock layers just flop over one another? Try it. You can see the difference when a car crashes into a stationary object at high speeds as opposed to 1-2 mph. Why would mountain making be any different?

Put a car in a car crusher, which exerts slow, steady pressure.
Stop this before you cube the car, and compare to fast crash damage.
You'll not find that much difference ...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by John Paul, posted 01-04-2002 8:05 AM John Paul has not replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1479 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 23 of 65 (8442)
04-11-2002 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by John Paul
01-04-2002 8:05 AM


quote:
Originally posted by John Paul:
moose:
My personal opinion mirrors that of the vast majority of those trained in geology. That is, that a vast part of the geologic column could be from a short time period, single flood event, is plainly absurd.
John Paul:
And if it were just a single flood event I would agree with you. However it wasn't 'just a single flood event'. It was a continent splitting up and then some of the pieces crashing into each other forming the mountain ranges we observe today. Also the ocean basins sank and that is where the water went to causing erosion.
What is the data that shows mountain peaks can be formed by the slow & steady plate movements we observe today? Wouldn't the rock layers just flop over one another? Try it. You can see the difference when a car crashes into a stationary object at high speeds as opposed to 1-2 mph. Why would mountain making be any different?
Here is a link on the Creationists' PoV on the GUC:
Assessing Creationist Stratigraphy with Evidence from the Gulf of Mexico

Sorry to reply twice to the same post, but I'm on different tacks.
JP, does this mean that you don't take the Bible to be a complete
literal history ?
The Bible only mentions one flood, and says nothing about
continental crashing so ... ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by John Paul, posted 01-04-2002 8:05 AM John Paul has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 24 of 65 (8604)
04-15-2002 9:58 PM


The area of "Great Flood" discussion, that I'm trying to push in this topic, has started to show up in another topic.
From http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=2&t=38&m=63#63 , is the following:
quote:
JM: Of course there is. You could start (an excellent start) with identifying the strata globally which marks the onset of the Noachian flood. You can then indentify the strata marking the end of the global flood and you can tell us what strata are 'intra-flood'. I would expect that these flood strata would not have any paleosols contained within them, wouldn't you?
So... BUMP!
Moose

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 65 (8732)
04-20-2002 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by mark24
04-04-2002 4:52 AM


"It occurred to me that the iridium layer at the K-T boundary would provide problems for the "flood model". If the layer has a higher concentration of iridium than lava, how did a THIN global layer of iridium rich rock appear in the turbulent waters of the flood? "
--An irridium rich meteor? Does irridium float, unless it does, I don't think it is logical to start.
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by mark24, posted 04-04-2002 4:52 AM mark24 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Joe Meert, posted 04-20-2002 7:45 PM TrueCreation has replied

  
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5680 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 26 of 65 (8733)
04-20-2002 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by TrueCreation
04-20-2002 6:01 PM


quote:
--An irridium rich meteor? Does irridium float, unless it does, I don't think it is logical to start.
JM: Yes, the element iridium is relatively enriched in meteors. I fail to follow your question about whether it floats or not.
Cheers
Joe Meert
[This message has been edited by Joe Meert, 04-20-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by TrueCreation, posted 04-20-2002 6:01 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by TrueCreation, posted 04-20-2002 7:54 PM Joe Meert has replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 65 (8735)
04-20-2002 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Joe Meert
04-20-2002 7:45 PM


"JM: Yes, the element iridium is relatively enriched in meteors. I fail to follow your question about whether it floats or not."
--Yes, though of course we know that it varies considerably in quantity from type to type. My inquisition on its floating capability was my slightly sarcastic assertion in my wonder of what problem mark24 is attempting to point out for this observation and the Flood event:
quote:
If the layer has a higher concentration of iridium than lava, how did a THIN global layer of iridium rich rock appear in the turbulent waters of the flood?
--Right now my best guess is that he assumed that I did not accept a meteoric origin.
------------------
[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 04-20-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Joe Meert, posted 04-20-2002 7:45 PM Joe Meert has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Joe Meert, posted 04-20-2002 8:21 PM TrueCreation has replied

  
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5680 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 28 of 65 (8740)
04-20-2002 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by TrueCreation
04-20-2002 7:54 PM


No, TC the problem is laying down a fine layer enriched in iridium during a tempest. Such an event is unlikely.
Cheers
Joe Meert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by TrueCreation, posted 04-20-2002 7:54 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by TrueCreation, posted 04-20-2002 8:40 PM Joe Meert has replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 65 (8743)
04-20-2002 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Joe Meert
04-20-2002 8:21 PM


"No, TC the problem is laying down a fine layer enriched in iridium during a tempest. Such an event is unlikely."
--Not really, it needs a gap in sedimentation for iridium to condense, also, it is comparable with osmium, both being questionably at the peak of highest elemental density. The element would rain right down.
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Joe Meert, posted 04-20-2002 8:21 PM Joe Meert has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Joe Meert, posted 04-20-2002 8:42 PM TrueCreation has replied

  
Joe Meert
Member (Idle past 5680 days)
Posts: 913
From: Gainesville
Joined: 03-02-2002


Message 30 of 65 (8744)
04-20-2002 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by TrueCreation
04-20-2002 8:40 PM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"No, TC the problem is laying down a fine layer enriched in iridium during a tempest. Such an event is unlikely."
--Not really, it needs a gap in sedimentation for iridium to condense, also, it is comparable with osmium, both being questionably at the peak of highest elemental density. The element would rain right down.

JM: ROTFL: You need to add flood hydraulics to your reading list!
Cheers
Joe Meert

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by TrueCreation, posted 04-20-2002 8:40 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by TrueCreation, posted 04-20-2002 9:21 PM Joe Meert has not replied

  
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