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Author Topic:   Hovind busted, finally
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4917 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 28 of 308 (331901)
07-15-2006 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Percy
07-14-2006 7:58 AM


what about the other side's story here?
If he was guilty of tax fraud way back in 96, then what happened? I am not saying he isn't wrong, but I am curious. He obviously didn't go to jail or prison. What was the basis he was able to dodge the IRS?
Heck, if he is as wrong as you guys say, it's an interesting story all on it's own on how he could effectively win in tax court.
I have never read the arguments, but ran into a couple once that said you didn't have to file and pay your taxes, and over the years you hear stuff like that, and wonder.....
How are these guys doing it?
Is there some legit way to opt out of filing?
I just thought they were being misled, but maybe not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Percy, posted 07-14-2006 7:58 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Percy, posted 07-15-2006 8:58 AM randman has replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4917 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 30 of 308 (331905)
07-15-2006 2:40 AM


comments on the charges
In the indictment unsealed Thursday, a grand jury alleges that Kent Hovind failed to pay $473,818 in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes on employees at his Creation Science Evangelism/Ministry between March 31, 2001, and Jan. 31, 2004.
As part of the ministry, Hovind operated the Dinosaur Adventure Land at 5800 N. Palafox St., which included rides, a museum and a science center. He also sold literature, videos, CDs and other materials and provided lecture services and live debates for a fee.
The indictment alleges Kent Hovind paid his employees in cash and labeled them "missionaries" to avoid payroll tax and FICA requirements.
This is sort of interesting legally. I think there are tax rulings that state direct payments can be made to missionaries and be tax deductible. Now, I think calling all of his employees missionaries is probably a stretch, but there is no doubt, from his religious perspective, that the theme park is a ministry, and as a ministry, why can't he count all workers as missionaries?
It's a loophole, and I kind of doubt he will prevail, but at the same time, making it a criminal offense to take advantage of legal tax loopholes....is that right?
The indictment also says the Hovinds' made cash withdrawals from AmSouth Bank in a manner that evaded federal requirements for reporting cash transactions.
The withdrawals were for $9,500 or $9,600, just below the $10,000 starting point for reporting cash transactions.
Most of the withdrawals were days apart. For example, the indictment shows three withdrawals of $9,500 each on July 20, July 23 and July 26 in 2001.
I don't get this at all. So it's illegal to withdraw amounts that will draw less notice? I suppose this is a conspiracy charge, meaning that he was hiding criminal actions, but once again, if the workers are legally missionaries, then how is this illegal?
Iam not saying this is wholly ethical or legal on Hovind's part, but the tax system does have all sorts of deductions, loopholes, etc,...and maybe he is completely within his rights here, and the IRS is just ticked off about it.
Frankly, I am not sure anyone, the IRS, accountants, lawyers or tax judges understand all the intricacies of the tax code and tax rulings. You may not like Hovind, but saying he definitely committed a crime here is wrong. The mere fact he is indicted does not mean he is guilty.

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by nator, posted 07-15-2006 6:46 AM randman has replied
 Message 33 by nwr, posted 07-15-2006 7:47 AM randman has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4917 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 31 of 308 (331906)
07-15-2006 2:46 AM


building permits?
Just wanted to add a separate comment....why would he be so oppossed to building permits on religious grounds?
Certainly, I think nearly everyone at one time is upset with some governmental regulation, but not bothering to get a permit?
Just seems bizarre. He had to know they would shut it down, or maybe not?

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Coragyps, posted 07-15-2006 11:11 AM randman has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4917 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 38 of 308 (331957)
07-15-2006 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by nator
07-15-2006 6:46 AM


Re: comments on the charges
Why don't you explain it to us? The IRS says no direct gifts can be made to anyone, but in tax court, there is a ruling stating the opposite for missionaries. It's a bit more complex than you realize legally.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by nator, posted 07-15-2006 6:46 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Asgara, posted 07-15-2006 12:34 PM randman has not replied
 Message 43 by nator, posted 07-15-2006 5:21 PM randman has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4917 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 39 of 308 (331958)
07-15-2006 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Percy
07-15-2006 8:58 AM


Re: what about the other side's story here?
I don't know. I thought the IRS specifically went after people with criminal charges if they were blatantly trying to never pay or file.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Percy, posted 07-15-2006 8:58 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Percy, posted 07-15-2006 12:55 PM randman has not replied

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