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Author | Topic: Hovind busted, finally | |||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Just wanted to add a separate comment....why would he be so oppossed to building permits on religious grounds?
Certainly, I think nearly everyone at one time is upset with some governmental regulation, but not bothering to get a permit? Just seems bizarre. He had to know they would shut it down, or maybe not?
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nator Member (Idle past 2197 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Do you know how the IRS defines "employee" and/or "missionary"?
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
This is sort of interesting legally. I think there are tax rulings that state direct payments can be made to missionaries and be tax deductible. Now, I think calling all of his employees missionaries is probably a stretch, but there is no doubt, from his religious perspective, that the theme park is a ministry, and as a ministry, why can't he count all workers as missionaries?
I think you have just explained why the IRS was so slow acting on this. Because of the nature of what he has been doing and claiming, they would need to be exceptionally careful in building and documenting a case. My guess is that they have a really solid case. But I guess we will have to wait and see. Compassionate conservatism - bringing you a kinder, gentler torture chamber
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Percy Member Posts: 22499 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
randman writes: If he was guilty of tax fraud way back in 96, then what happened? I am not saying he isn't wrong, but I am curious. He obviously didn't go to jail or prison. What was the basis he was able to dodge the IRS? I couldn't find out any details of the final outcome of Hovind's 1996 tax case. My guess is that the seized property (cars, a computer) was sufficient to settle the tax bill, and that the charge was civil fraud, not criminal. I think the IRS shies away from use of criminal fraud charges in tax protester cases. The Wikipedia article on Hovind has a Tax Evasion section that mentions an attempt made by the Hovinds in 1998 to "revoke and make void...all signatures on any instruments" on government documents they had signed regarding the 1996 tax case, but I was unable to find any specifics about which documents. Whatever they were, the Hovinds evidently felt they no longer wanted to be held to them. --Percy
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3955 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
After all, the system does it to us all, like when the system with the stroke of a pen abolished the promise on every money bill silver certificate to pay on demand in silver the amount on the bill. the money is no longer on the silver or gold standard. it is represenative of the labor and trade within the country and the credit owed the government in out taxes. keep up with economics eh? Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3955 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
*coughs*
i really rather like the services my government provides, and i know precisely how much military families appreciate their pay and pentions. when i make enough to actually get taxed, i will gladly pay. sure, they're inefficient and could probably use a lesson from a few other countries in money management. but for now, it's really not so bad. and, i would argue, have many documents demonstrating my sanity.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 762 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Certainly, I think nearly everyone at one time is upset with some governmental regulation, but not bothering to get a permit? I find that strange, too. There was a news item somewhere (??!!) within the last month about a large church built by a congregation in Alabama(?) without the aid of architects, engineers, or building permit - the pastor builds houses on the side. The roof collapsed the Thursday night before the grand opening Sunday services. Building permits do have a purpose...
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Why don't you explain it to us? The IRS says no direct gifts can be made to anyone, but in tax court, there is a ruling stating the opposite for missionaries. It's a bit more complex than you realize legally.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
I don't know. I thought the IRS specifically went after people with criminal charges if they were blatantly trying to never pay or file.
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Asgara Member (Idle past 2330 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: |
Here is one church org discussing this issue
Handling Contributions for Specific Missionaries
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Percy Member Posts: 22499 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
randman writes: I don't know. I thought the IRS specifically went after people with criminal charges if they were blatantly trying to never pay or file. By and large I think the IRS understands that its primary purpose is revenue. The ultimate destination of any very determined tax protester is probably jail, but I assume the IRS begins most cases by pursuing the money owed it rather than punishment. I do know that in the recent tax issue the IRS charges Hovind with civil fraud, see page 4 of http://www.ustaxcourt.gov/InOpHistoric/Hovind.TCM.WPD.pdf. --Percy
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lfen Member (Idle past 4705 days) Posts: 2189 From: Oregon Joined: |
Following that logic we can say most people are innocent, if they were guilty they would have been busted a long time ago. The IRS has just taken its time to build a case. Well Jews and Christians claim that's how God does it, so why not the USA? Everyone is guilty of original sin and all other crimes. The government will bust you at it's convenience. You can plead for mercy. How's that for a model judicial system? lfen
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nator Member (Idle past 2197 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Because I don't know the answer. That's why I asked.
quote: I figured. That's why I asked.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1371 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
and, i would argue, have many documents demonstrating my sanity. uh huh. right. i'm know you way too long for that argument to work.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Blech!
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