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Author Topic:   Forum Changes
Admin
Director
Posts: 12602
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 1 of 16 (147655)
10-05-2004 8:44 PM


We're making two changes in the forums.

  1. Free For All moves from the "Side Orders" category to the "Main Topic Forums" and changes its name to Remedial. It will no longer be for unmoderated debate. The Remedial forum will be open to all members, but those whose debate skills need development or who need help following the Forum Guidelines will be restricted to the Remedial forum until they demonstrate that the restriction is no longer necessary.

    The Remedial forum will be moderated, but penalties for Forum Guidelines violations will likely be few to non-existent. This forum will serve as a venue where restricted members can improve their debate skills and their awareness of the Forum Guidelines. It is suggested that other members be constructively helpful when participating in the Remedial forum.

    New topics to the Remedial forum must be proposed in the Proposed New Topics forum. Any threads of quality that develop in the Remedial forum have the potential for upgrade to one of the regular Main Topic Forums.

  2. The Welcome, Visitors! (No new topics or messages) forum will be closed to new topics. After a suitable period, it might be removed altogether, though no decision about that has been made at this time.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by CK, posted 10-06-2004 4:29 AM Admin has not yet responded
 Message 3 by Primordial Egg, posted 10-06-2004 11:31 AM Admin has not yet responded
 Message 8 by Ooook!, posted 10-06-2004 1:05 PM Admin has not yet responded

    
CK
Member (Idle past 2300 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 2 of 16 (147716)
10-06-2004 4:29 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Admin
10-05-2004 8:44 PM


hi percy - any timescale on those changes?
This message is a reply to:
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Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 16 (147773)
10-06-2004 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Admin
10-05-2004 8:44 PM


1) Does this mean there's no longer going to be an unmoderated forum?

2) What would be the general criteria or guidelines for a poster's privileges to be restricted to remedial? Is it just debating skills, or will appalling lack of punctuation and unreadability also be considered?

PE

This message has been edited by Primordial Egg, 10-06-2004 10:33 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Admin, posted 10-05-2004 8:44 PM Admin has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12602
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 4 of 16 (147786)
10-06-2004 12:23 PM


The changes have already been made.

Bad punctuation and grammar are probably insufficient to be sent to Remedial, unless the result was consistent incomprehensibility. Here's a partial list of qualities which I think if consistently demonstrated would send one to the Remedial forum:

  • Failure to follow the Forum Guidelines.
  • Abuse of fellow members.
  • Inability to stay on topic.
  • Turning all threads into discussions of your favorite topic.
  • Inability to think logically.
  • Unwillingness to support argument with evidence.
  • Incomprehensibility.

By the way, now that I actually see the name Remedial in the forum list, it looks a bit too penal for my taste. I originally suggested Not Ready for Prime Time to the other moderators, which has much more of an optimistic feel to it for me. Or maybe Preparing for Prime Time. I'm open to other name suggestions, too.

Added by edit: Yes, it means there will no longer be any unmoderated forums.

This message has been edited by Admin, 10-06-2004 11:24 AM


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
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 Message 6 by Dr Jack, posted 10-06-2004 12:30 PM Admin has not yet responded
 Message 7 by jar, posted 10-06-2004 12:51 PM Admin has not yet responded
 Message 9 by Lammy, posted 10-06-2004 1:40 PM Admin has not yet responded
 Message 10 by purpledawn, posted 10-06-2004 4:57 PM Admin has not yet responded

    
CK
Member (Idle past 2300 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 5 of 16 (147790)
10-06-2004 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Admin
10-06-2004 12:23 PM


I still have a listing for "free for all" in sideorders (clicking,however, does take you to the Remedial folder).

I can't see a listing in main ?


This message is a reply to:
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Dr Jack
Member (Idle past 277 days)
Posts: 3507
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 6 of 16 (147791)
10-06-2004 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Admin
10-06-2004 12:23 PM


A correction:

Incomprehensibility. (Unless you're Brad)

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jar
Member
Posts: 30996
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 7 of 16 (147796)
10-06-2004 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Admin
10-06-2004 12:23 PM


How about réparateur. Sounds better.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
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Ooook!
Member (Idle past 3987 days)
Posts: 340
From: London, UK
Joined: 09-29-2003


Message 8 of 16 (147800)
10-06-2004 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Admin
10-05-2004 8:44 PM


It may sound like nitpicking but I think you've got as point about the name. I imagine I'd be quite peeved at having my full posting status taken away from me for starters, getting put in the Special Needs class would antagonize me even further.

Can it be given a less provacative title? (He says while not being able to think of a good one himself)

Edit: Changed to be more relavent to discussion. That'll teach me for not reading far enough down the thread !!!!

This message has been edited by Ooook!, 10-06-2004 12:11 PM


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Replies to this message:
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Lammy
Member
Posts: 3608
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 9 of 16 (147814)
10-06-2004 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Admin
10-06-2004 12:23 PM


How about the newbie forum?
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1630 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 10 of 16 (147868)
10-06-2004 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Admin
10-06-2004 12:23 PM


How about "Debating Basics" or "Prepare to Debate"

It would be nice to get some feedback on whether one is debating correctly or not.
When people don't answer, one starts to wonder.

"Debating Bootcamp" also a thought.


A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
This message is a reply to:
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8842
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 11 of 16 (147885)
10-06-2004 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Ooook!
10-06-2004 1:05 PM


I'd make it more pointed
Personally, I'd call it the "Kindergarten". I believe that it is necessary to make it very clear to those restricted there that it is because they aren't up to snuff yet.

Is this a mean streak coming out? Have I been here too long?

(editted to correct spelling -- boy am I glad that isn't going to get one put in the "kindergarten" )

This message has been edited by NosyNed, 10-06-2004 05:18 PM


This message is a reply to:
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Ooook!
Member (Idle past 3987 days)
Posts: 340
From: London, UK
Joined: 09-29-2003


Message 12 of 16 (147894)
10-06-2004 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by NosyNed
10-06-2004 6:17 PM


Re: I'd make it more pointed
boy am I glad that isn't going to get one put in the "kindergarten"

Me too!!! My spalling is attroosious.

Is this a mean streak coming out?

Ned! I'm glad to see you have one.

On a (slightly) more serious note:

One of the things debate forums need is new blood. If EvC puts people off by seemingly looking down it's nose at people who might not fit in with the accepted debate format then its not going to prosper (just my opinion). EvC should try and present an honest and non-intimidating front of "this is the way we debate here", and that should include the 'remedial' forum (again just my opinion).


This message is a reply to:
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8842
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 13 of 16 (148182)
10-07-2004 6:12 PM


A suggestion regarding use of the Debate Bootcamp
The Debate Bootcamp forum is to be considered a training ground for those who have not demonstrated an ability and/or willingness to debate well.

For those who have full privileges it should not be considered a place to carry on "regular" debates. If you have full privileges you should focuss your posts to the Debate Bootcamp forum on assisting those who need help.

For example:

A "bootcamp" poster posts this message:

Evolution is just a theory it should not be taught as fact in our schools.

The desirable response of more capable posters should NOT be:

You do not know what a scientific theory is. There are facts that show that living things have, in fact, evolved. A scientific theory is NOT just a guess. It is the best explanation that we have for e set of obervations. The fact is that things have evolved. The ToE (theory of evolution) is the scientific explanation of how that happened.

Then more blah blah blah and so on.

Instead you might try something like this:

Thank you Mr Bootcamp. When debating here there are a number of things you should do. Here are some suggestions:

You've stated an opinion widely prevalent among Creationists, and it has been discussed here many times. By perusing some of the old threads you may find that your point of view has been discussed already.

Also, while there's nothing wrong with discussing the topic again, it has been discussed to the point where yet another thread on the topic should provide some fresh insights or have a unique perspective.

If we did discuss this topic you'd quickly discover that the correct meaning of fact and theory are important to this topic. Therefore you might want to research how these words are used within the sciences. You should at least state clearly what your own definitions are since it is apparent from your post that your use of the words (especially theory) are in no what the same as the general use in the scientific community.

For those of us (most all of us I'd say ) who find it difficult to avoid engaging those who are in the "bootcamp" forum let me remind you:
"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win you're still retarded".

If there is any hope for those who are confined to the Debate bootcamp forum it can only come from those who do understand how to conduct themselves both within the forum guidelines and with a general politeness. In addtion, they will require patient teaching from those who are much better at conducting a good debate.

If there is a lot of full on debating done in the Debate bootcamp forum by those who are not restricted to it the solution may be to take those folks and restrict them to it. Get the drift here? mmm?

I would like some thoughts and suggestions from others on the above. Thanks.


Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by CK, posted 10-07-2004 6:51 PM NosyNed has not yet responded
 Message 15 by Nighttrain, posted 10-07-2004 8:35 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
CK
Member (Idle past 2300 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 14 of 16 (148195)
10-07-2004 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by NosyNed
10-07-2004 6:12 PM


Re: A suggestion regarding use of the Debate Bootcamp
can i suggest that you close all the "carryover" forums in debate bootcamp?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by NosyNed, posted 10-07-2004 6:12 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2166 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 15 of 16 (148220)
10-07-2004 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by NosyNed
10-07-2004 6:12 PM


Re: A suggestion regarding use of the Debate Bootcamp
[Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win you're still retarded]
Naughty,Ned. the PC word is 'challenged'.
How`s about something like 'Honing your Debating Skills'. This might not be as offensive to the intellectual giants who come to conquer all with their infallibility. :-P
This message is a reply to:
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