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Author Topic:   Defining GUToB
peter borger
Member (Idle past 7988 days)
Posts: 965
From: australia
Joined: 07-05-2002


Message 7 of 13 (34237)
03-12-2003 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Admin
03-10-2003 8:21 AM


defining GUToB
Hi Admin,
PB: I have given your summary a thought.
Admin: This is more a discussion of NRM than a definition, since it also includes evidence, implications and conclusions. How about this:
'GUToB (Grand Unifying Theory of Biology)- descent with modification within species boundaries through natural selection'
PB: GUToB - descent with modification within bounderies determined by the MPG through natural selection.
Admin: MPG (MultiPurpose Genome) - The genetic foundation of GUToB, the same MPG can be shared across many species, with minor variations to the MPG producing the variety of species. An MPG for a species cannot experience change sufficient to produce a new species. The cause of change in MPGs is random mutation, and morphogenetic fields and creaton waves that produce non-random mutations (NRMs).
PB: MPG (MultiPurpose Genome) - The genetic foundation of GUToB. The same genetics (genes, (regulatory) DNA elements to induce variation) are shared across many species, with minor variations to the MPG producing variation within the species (although species is not the appropriate term, since I propose to replace 'species' and probably 'genus' by 'MPG'). An MPG cannot induce change sufficient to produce another MPG. The variation observed within MPGs is causes by non-random mutation specified by mechanisms in the MPG itself.
NRM (Non-Random Mutation) - There are two types. The first is often referred to as hot-spots, regions of the genome where mutational change is more common than usual, possibly related to DNA structure. The second is due to genetic mechanisms specified by the MPG which serve as a causative force behind mutation.
About morphogenetic field and creaton waves:
I used the idea of Creaton Waves in a Morphogenic Fields (I've changed it to 'morphogenic' since 'morphogenetic' reminds of Shelldrakes' Fields) to give a scientific explanation for creation.
If a bystander was in the position to watch the process of creation it would be something like watching a film about disintegration backwards. It shows negative entropy.
Best wishes,
Peter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Admin, posted 03-10-2003 8:21 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Admin, posted 03-13-2003 7:57 AM peter borger has replied
 Message 9 by Mammuthus, posted 03-13-2003 10:41 AM peter borger has not replied

  
peter borger
Member (Idle past 7988 days)
Posts: 965
From: australia
Joined: 07-05-2002


Message 11 of 13 (34821)
03-20-2003 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Admin
03-13-2003 7:57 AM


Re: defining GUToB
Hi admin,
Admin says:
In other words, you want to group species into larger subgroups determined by their MPGs. How do you determine what the various MPGs are? How do you tell what MPG a species belongs to? What distinguishes one MPG from another? In other words, species are divided from one another by reproductive boundaries. What forms the boundary between MPGs?
PB: MPG = any group of organisms with compatible DNA (genomes) that is able to produce offspring through mixture --either natural or artificial-- of their DNA.
Admin: Also, you don't mention random mutation. I would like to rephrase a bit. Species is a well understood term with true meaning, I don't think you want to abandon it, and you can't exclude random mutation. How is this:
'MPG (MultiPurpose Genome) - The genetic foundation of GUToB. The same MPG is shared across many species, with variations to the MPG producing the different species. An MPG cannot induce change sufficient to produce another MPG. [insert description of boundary between MPGs here] The variation observed within MPGs is caused by both random and non-random mutation.
PB: I would like to change the last sentence into 'The variation observed within MPGs is mainly caused by non-random mechanisms, but random mutations are not excluded.'
Best wishes,
Peter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Admin, posted 03-13-2003 7:57 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Admin, posted 03-20-2003 10:12 PM peter borger has replied

  
peter borger
Member (Idle past 7988 days)
Posts: 965
From: australia
Joined: 07-05-2002


Message 13 of 13 (35964)
03-31-2003 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Admin
03-20-2003 10:12 PM


Re: defining GUToB
Hi Admin,
PB: In my opinion the GUToB was already defined by the 5 rules of GUToB (see 'The GUToB' thread). However, since you still have questions, let's further define the GUToB.
Admin: I'm afraid I don't know what this means:
MPG = any group of organisms with compatible DNA (genomes) that is able to produce offspring through mixture --either natural or artificial-- of their DNA.
What does "mixture of their DNA" mean?
PB: Mixture = exchange of DNA elements. For instance fusion of two nuclei of organism that do belong to the same MPG will result in (viable) offspring. Viable is not necessary, the induction of an embryo (cell division) is sufficient to assess this. Viability may degenerate over time through loss of important DNA elements that convey MPG compatibility. Microorganism are though to be able to exchange all their DNA elements and thus are one / a few MPG's. Initially and originally created to make the world go round. Through recombinations a lot of aggressive/virulent phenotypes have arisen and that's what we call pathogens. (NB: viruses is a different story).
Admin: Also, the change in the sentence that you requested from this:
"The variation observed within MPGs is caused by both random and non-random mutation."
to this:
"The variation observed within MPGs is mainly caused by non-random mechanisms, but random mutations are not excluded."
...doesn't feel consistent with the definitions of RM and NRM. Unless there is some very simple reason why RM belongs in a less likely category, the original wording seems better, and you can address the relative contribution to change within MPGs in discussion.
PB: Maybe it could be changes into: "The variation observed within MPGs is mainly caused by non-random mechanisms, but random mutations are not excluded due to degeneration of mechanism(s) involved in NRM and through entropy working on the genome."
Thanks and have a good one,
Peter
[This message has been edited by peter borger, 04-01-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Admin, posted 03-20-2003 10:12 PM Admin has not replied

  
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