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Author Topic:   Does The Flood Add up?
mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 6016 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 122 of 298 (321822)
06-15-2006 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by tdcanam
06-15-2006 10:58 AM


You're telling me that God made Noah spend a 100 years! building an ark when he could've just taken a trip out of town and avoided the flood?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by tdcanam, posted 06-15-2006 10:58 AM tdcanam has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 06-15-2006 12:20 PM mjfloresta has replied
 Message 124 by Jazzns, posted 06-15-2006 12:32 PM mjfloresta has not replied

mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 6016 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 125 of 298 (321865)
06-15-2006 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
06-15-2006 12:20 PM


Re: No
Thanks for that but I was addressing tdcanam who seems to hold that the flood DID occur but locally, therefore I was wondering why God would have Noah spend a hundred years working on the ark when he could've migrated REALLY far away from the flood area in a hundred years...
As it was, my question had nothing to do whatsoever with those who doubt the occurence of the flood, but thanks anyways...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 06-15-2006 12:20 PM SuperNintendo Chalmers has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by ringo, posted 06-15-2006 12:54 PM mjfloresta has replied

mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 6016 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 127 of 298 (321908)
06-15-2006 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by ringo
06-15-2006 12:54 PM


Re: No
Because the Bible makes it apparent that the flood was global
IF the flood was local:
1. Why was the ark so big? Only certain animals (those indigenous to Mesipotamia) would have boarded the ark (and then only if they were not indigenous to any unaffected areas) - the rest not being affected by the ark.
2. Why would God have made the animals board the ark at all instead of migrating them away from the flooded areas?
3. Why would Noah not have migrated to an unaffected location?
4. Certainly birds could have flown to an unaffected area...
5. It's unlikely that humanity would not have migrated at least somewhat in all the generations since Adam, and yet all humanity was destroyed...making it unlikely that the flood was localized to a specific valley or small geographic area...
6. In order for the water to rise fifteen cubits above the mountains, an extremely large area would have been inundated since water is self-leveling..moreover, Genesis 7:19 specifically states that "all (kol) the high mountains under (kol) all the heavens were covered - no ambiguity...
7. Why would Noah have spent an entire year and ten days on the ark if dry ground was available not far away?
8. How would God's promise to never again destroy the earth with a flood if the earth merely refered to a localized area?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by ringo, posted 06-15-2006 12:54 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by ringo, posted 06-15-2006 2:16 PM mjfloresta has replied

mjfloresta
Member (Idle past 6016 days)
Posts: 277
From: N.Y.
Joined: 06-08-2006


Message 129 of 298 (321945)
06-15-2006 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by ringo
06-15-2006 2:16 PM


So who's conjecturing here and who's presenting the evidence as laid in the Bible?
Let's see how many times you just choose to ignore the biblical claims or just wave them away as irrelevant...
mjfloresta writes:
Why was the ark so big?
Exaggeration? Misplaced decimal point? There are a lot of explanations more plausible than that an impossibly large boat actually existed.
(Why don't creationists just build a replica if they think it's possible?)
Your first claim of just so...Actually, modern shipbuilders acknowledge the the Arks dimensions and ratios would have made it MORE seaworthy than modern sealiners...remember the Ark didn't need to move, merely float...
Wikkipedia reports the following:Noah's Ark was big but not an impossible size for wood. Steel is a superior material for shipbuilding, so a wooden hull will never reach the lengths of steel hulls. Larger hulls are more difficult to build since stresses are related to scale (See the square/cube law)
Besides length, a ship hull is dependent on other factors for its structural safety. Increased hull depth improves bending strength, the shape of the hull can lower the wave loads. For calculations based on standard ship rules see Wave Bending Moment.
The following Flash presentation compares Noah's Ark to a collection of famous ships. Use the Forward button (bottom right) to compare each ship. The ships are in approximate chronological order.
In 1993, research was carried out by naval architects and structural engineers at the world class KRISO ship research facility in Korea, testing the proportions described in Genesis - 300 x 50 x 30 cubits. They concluded that the proportions were near optimal and that the scale was feasible in waves up to 30m. Korean Research
So the Koreans have already done the work you want creationists to do....with what results? Near Optimal porportions and a scale feasible in waves up to 30m....
So what do you know that these experts don't?
Why would God have made the animals board the ark at all....
He didn't. He told Noah to do it. As I said before, it's a question of Noah trusting God.
You talk about trusting God and yet you reject the plain language of the Bible...
Certainly birds could have flown to an unaffected area...
No doubt they did. Two of each would certainly not have been a viable breeding population.
Yet the bible mentions taking birds on the ark..but why take some on the ark if there were others safe and dry in other areas of the world?
... all humanity was destroyed...
Figure of speech, irrelevant to the point of the story: Noah trusted God and was saved. Others didn't trust God and perished.
some verses from Genesis:
6:6 - the Lord was grieved that he had made man on the earth and his heart was filled with pain. So the Lord said, I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth- men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air- for I am grieved that I have made them.
6:13 - So God said to Noah, I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.
6:17 - I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.
7:4 - Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made..
7:21 - Every living thing that moved on the earth perished - birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out: men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark..
etc...
that's a lot of figures of speech! Noah must've been really dense for God to tell him the same thing so many times!! Or else God really meant what he told Noah...Could it be? Again, how can you trust the moral of the story if almost the entire story is not to actually be believed?
all (kol) the high mountains under (kol) all the heavens were covered - no ambiguity...
Also no basis in reality.
again, a just so claim...you keep going against the clear, precise language...instead creating your own reality...which is fine, if that's what you want to do but don't use the Bible as your source...
Why would Noah have spent an entire year and ten days on the ark if dry ground was available not far away?
Ever hear of property lines? National boundaries? He would have had to stay on his own land.
Are you serious?! So God has Noah spend a hundred years creating the ark because that's easier than asking permission to travel through foreign land? WOW!!
This is a science forum. We don't twist the facts to fit your interpretation of the Bible here. Any interpretation of the Bible in this forum has to fit the facts.
This may very well be a science forum; however before you attempt to prove or disprove the Flood (the biblical theory) you must understand the Flood account as related biblically...You are projecting your own flood theory which is unsupported by the text you claim to use...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by ringo, posted 06-15-2006 2:16 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by ringo, posted 06-15-2006 4:47 PM mjfloresta has not replied
 Message 137 by Gullwind, posted 06-20-2006 9:55 PM mjfloresta has not replied

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