Message 1 of 17 (166190) 12-08-2004 9:29 AM

It's a shame that the kind of faith so many Christians have these days is so terribly weak that it cannot survive ANY critical analysis at all.

Message 3 of 17 (166241) 12-08-2004 12:37 PM

Reply to: Message 1 by nator 12-08-2004 9:29 AM

When the unbelievers cannot refute the believers, the unbelievers become ratty and generally confused logically add cursings and tantrums and childish behaviour aswell as obfuscations.

In the movie "Contact" we are supposed to believe Ellie's passionate discourse of faith, yet there was no proof she "went". So you have to have faith in many things Shraff, including gravity and quantum mechanics, and dark matter.

Message 4 of 17 (166243) 12-08-2004 1:09 PM

Reply to: Message 3 by mike the wiz 12-08-2004 12:37 PM

Go ahead and believe what you want, but don't start throwing words like "proof" around.

Oh, and for the record, there was some evidence in Contact that she actually went. See the last few minutes of the movie where they say she was only gone for a few seconds, yet her pod thing recorded 17 hours of static.

Message 5 of 17 (166245) 12-08-2004 1:19 PM

Reply to: Message 3 by mike the wiz 12-08-2004 12:37 PM

quote:

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I think the problem is, that unbelievers think that critical analysis means they can out-think God, despite mike and Buz patiently having proved that Christ is the truth, through prophecies in the OT and extra-biblical sources.

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By "confused logically," do you mean that unbelievers fail to acknowledge the profundity of a statement like Because the universe exists, then God exists? In that case, I plead guilty. You've never done more than trot out the same old a priori arguments and ontological proofs that we've all seen a million times, and if that constitutes your case, then it speaks for itself.

regards,
Esteban Hambre

Message 6 of 17 (166247) 12-08-2004 1:27 PM

Reply to: Message 4 by IrishRockhound 12-08-2004 1:09 PM

This message has been edited by Phatboy, 12-08-2004 01:32 PM

Message 8 of 17 (166256) 12-08-2004 2:01 PM

Reply to: Message 5 by MrHambre 12-08-2004 1:19 PM

MrHambre, you so WISH this was the case. In reality - the box you've built around yourself, keeps God out - and thought in.

Any single shred of a mere scrap of evidence that points towards God and you read the atheists most recent post and agree with it.

My perception is too strong, when I see someone reply in the same manner as the previous drone, I hazard a conclusion of "what the crowd states - goes"....Pity, I listen to the cross not the crowd. Pity for you that is. Meanwhile I'll leave the fickle crowd to minimouse's trusty atheist puppet strings - and expect incarceration in bootcamp shortly.

Eh Irish - it was 18 hours of static, which could have been explained as fraud by dudeguy on high in the sky.

mike caught him some big fish as usual. Hambre comes in two mikey dishes nowadays cos he's so easy, battered, Dan-sauce, and there's a Shraff beginner course.

AAAwww, I'm on'y kiddin' ya Hambre. I luv ya really baba, but these short subjects r too hard to resist.

Message 9 of 17 (166257) 12-08-2004 2:02 PM

Reply to: Message 6 by Phat 12-08-2004 1:27 PM

No, you aren't. You are on excellent ground. Which, for instance, is a better record of an event, a clear video tape or the flawed perceptions and memories of witnesses? The technological record is obviously better.

Your sarcasm here is well taken. You clearly illustrate that we, as humans, can believe in anything we want (like god, angels, or demons) as strongly as we want and that won't change the way the universe actually works.

Message 10 of 17 (166258) 12-08-2004 2:04 PM

Reply to: Message 6 by Phat 12-08-2004 1:27 PM

If you take exception are you willing to tell me that, if you have kids, just because your kid tells you there is a monster in the closet...and s/he is DAMN sure of it...that you BELIEVE it without further PROOF or applying...oh my goodness....LOGIC? You are just as prone to relying on logic as the rest of us. You just choose where and when to apply it.

Phatboy, stick to your faith and your belief in your god. I have seen few on this board who will seriously contest anyone's faith or belief in the existence of their personal deity. It's the PHYSICAL aspect that is contested....events like the flood, the exodus, the human writers, etc.

Anyway, it's too bad this member is gone....exploring other ideas and possibilities, imNsho, is both critical and beneficial for our intellectual growth as humans.

Message 11 of 17 (166261) 12-08-2004 2:12 PM

Reply to: Message 8 by mike the wiz 12-08-2004 2:01 PM

quote:

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I'll leave the fickle crowd to minimouse's trusty atheist puppet strings - and expect incarceration in bootcamp shortly.

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quote:

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Send me some if you want. I'll bake a cake with it, you know - a more "full" product than the soggy dough of atheistic thought processes that circle this here town, in the state of Boxed thought.

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regards,
Esteban Hambre

Message 12 of 17 (166269) 12-08-2004 2:42 PM

Reply to: Message 8 by mike the wiz 12-08-2004 2:01 PM

LOL if evidence was present there would be no dispute.Evidence is seperate from theory of the evidence mike.That gravity is a force that can be evidenced is immediately available through experimentation.You are free to believe that such force is in our mind but the ability of anybody to get the same results when testing it are not.
You may not believe in the existence of electromagnetism however the existence of such can be evidenced by bending the middle tines of a fork and sticking it in an outlet.You need not believe in the theory behind the phenomena but I guarantee you that if you try arc welding while standing in some water in doing so you will be assured of the reality of the phenomena.

I do not yet think you have brought forth any phenomena remotely capable of being experienced by anybody at any time despite your great desire that such was so.

Message 13 of 17 (166292) 12-08-2004 4:14 PM

Reply to: Message 3 by mike the wiz 12-08-2004 12:37 PM

quote:

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I think the problem is, that unbelievers think that critical analysis means they can out-think God,

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Which God? What's this God like?

Show me.

quote:

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despite mike and Buz patiently having proved that Christ is the truth, through prophecies in the OT and extra-biblical sources.

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You did? Where? I don't remember that.

quote:

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When the unbelievers cannot refute the believers, the unbelievers become ratty and generally confused logically add cursings and tantrums and childish behaviour aswell as obfuscations.

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Please answer the above questions.

quote:

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In the movie "Contact" we are supposed to believe Ellie's passionate discourse of faith, yet there was no proof she "went".

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Actually, in the book there are many hours of blank tape from the camera that was on her head but that evidence was hidden from her.

The point also is that she doesn't really expect people to believe her. She still respects skepticism and honest inquiry and critical thinking.

quote:

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So you have to have faith in many things Shraff, including gravity and quantum mechanics, and dark matter.

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Show me evidence for God that I can test the way I can test the evidence that gravity exists.

Please design a little controlled experiment for me.

Message 14 of 17 (166299) 12-08-2004 4:39 PM

Reply to: Message 8 by mike the wiz 12-08-2004 2:01 PM

I have no idea what you've got planned for tonight, Mike. But if it involves referring to Hambre as "a dish" and "easy", or has anything to do with my "Dan-sauce", I want no part of it.

Message 15 of 17 (166306) 12-08-2004 4:48 PM

Reply to: Message 14 by Dan Carroll 12-08-2004 4:39 PM

............Dan, is that you swimming in orange soda? I knew you were a pretty wierd guy.