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Member (Idle past 6500 days) Posts: 756 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Does Islam need a Reformation? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
CanadianSteve Member (Idle past 6500 days) Posts: 756 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Joined: |
Surely you realize that petty and immature comments diminish oneself pesonally and intellectually, and diminish this site. That a few others have posted similarly, without rebuke or comment from administrators is surprising, given my understanding that EvC subscribes to qualitative standards.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Welcome to Double(Quality-)Standard Wonderland where Biblical creationists and social conservatives are routinely bashed while the barbarian liberals and evolutionists sometimes get a brief suspension if they are egregiously obnoxious.
This message has been edited by Faith, 08-02-2005 12:25 PM
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CanadianSteve Member (Idle past 6500 days) Posts: 756 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Joined: |
"What's wrong with not saying so is this: If we Muslims can't bring
ourselves to question the peaceable perfection of the Koran, then we can't effectively question the actions that flow from certain readings of it. All we'll be doing is chanting that the terrorists broke the rules, without coming to terms with where they got their concept of "the rules" in the first place. In which case, we'll only be sanitizing what we don't want to hear. That's no way to address Islam's intellectual lethargy, or the moraldereliction that goes with it." Get The Wall Street Journal’s Opinion columnists, editorials, op-eds, letters to the editor, and book and arts reviews.
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CanadianSteve Member (Idle past 6500 days) Posts: 756 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Joined: |
By Patrick Sookhdeo
The Spectator | August 2, 2005 "The funeral of British suicide bomber Shehzad Tanweer was held in absentia in his family’s ancestral village, near Lahore, Pakistan. Thousands of people attended, as they did again the following day when a qul ceremony was held for Tanweer. During qul, the Koran is recited to speed the deceased’s journey to paradise, though in Tanweer’s case this was hardly necessary. Being a shahid (martyr), he is deemed to have gone straight to paradise. The 22-year-old from Leeds, whose bomb at Aldgate station killed seven people, was hailed by the crowd as ”a hero of Islam’." ----------------------------------------------------------This is further evidence of the civil war within Islam. Ultimately, only the majority peaceful Muslims can win it. But we must not be naive, or we will pay more severely before the good guys win. |
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CanadianSteve Member (Idle past 6500 days) Posts: 756 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Joined: |
"The question of how to fight Islamic terrorism preoccupies many Arab reformists who are working to denounce Islamist thought, to encourage independent and critical thinking, and to establish values of democracy and human rights in the Muslim world. For example, in February 2005, a group of reformists submitted to the U.N. a request that it establish an international court to judge Muslim clerics who incite to violence and bloodshed. The request was examined by the U.N. legal counseland distributed to the U.N. Security Council. [1]
Following the July 7, 2005 London bombings, Arab reformists further expanded their criticism and honed their arguments, not only regarding Muslim extremists, but also regarding the European countries, particularly Britain, which allows extremist activity within its borders in the name of protecting individual rights. They also increased their criticism of the silent Muslim majority and moderate Muslim intellectuals, who capitulate to Islamist pressure and do not speak out decisively against it. The following are some of the recommendations by reformist Arab writers." -------------------------------------------------------------------These are the topics covered in the article, to which i'll provide the URL at the end: Europe Must Change its Lenient Treatment of Muslim Extremists Incitement on the Internet Must Be Stopped Arab Intellectuals Must Stop Speaking in Two Voices The Terrorists Must Be Separated from Their Sympathizers Muslims Must Denounce the Terrorists; The West Must Stop Being Naive Muslims Must Ban Suicide Bombings for Moral Reasons The Religious Institutions Must Take Practical Measures Against the Terrorists The Muslims Must Form a New Religious Culture The Silent Majority Must Speak Out Against the Terrorists The War on Terrorism Requires Extensive Intellectual, Political and Educational Activity Page not found | MEMRI
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
CanadianSteve writes: ... petty and immature comments diminish oneself pesonally and intellectually.... As I said, your posts speak for themselves.
quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: quote: Okay, I won't quote the entire book of Proverbs.
quote: Let's see if I get suspended for quoting the Bible. This message has been edited by Ringo316, 2005-08-02 12:45 PM People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.
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AdminJar Inactive Member |
Did your post help advance the discussion?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Fascinating. Every one of those Biblical quotes describes the way you -- as the fool -- have been dealing with Steve.
This message has been edited by Faith, 08-02-2005 04:13 PM
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CanadianSteve Member (Idle past 6500 days) Posts: 756 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Joined: |
Many Muslim moderates take it as fact that the islamists have nothing to do with honest Islam. Other moderates disagree. either way, both groups are our friends. The following is a succinct analyses of the problem and a to the point strategy on how to defeat the Islamists. The author, a moderate Muslim, says the Islamic world needs the US's help.
The following is an excerpt from the article. The URL for all of it I'll post at the end. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "It is not hard to have the silent Muslim majority on our side if we can reach them. It is not hard to convince some of the fanatics by using the fanatic tradition against them. Also, it is very easy to recruit open-minded Muslims and organize them in this peaceful war against terrorism. Actually, they are eager to be organized and supported by the U.S so that they can attain freedom and rid themselves and the world of the terrorist danger." Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out - David Horowitz
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CanadianSteve Member (Idle past 6500 days) Posts: 756 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Joined: |
A PS. Here's a blurb on the author of the article I cited above:
"Dr. Ahmed Subhy Mansour is a distinguished scholar of Islam with expertise in Islamic history, culture, theology and politics. An Egyptian national now living in the U.S., he was an advocate for democracy and human rights in Egypt for many years, during which time he himself was isolated and persecuted by religious extremists and by the regime."
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CanadianSteve Member (Idle past 6500 days) Posts: 756 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Joined: |
From yesterday's Washington Post:
..."The traditionalists' refusal of history plays right into the hands of the literalist Islamofascists, allowing them to imprison Islam in their iron certainties and unchanging absolutes. If, however, the Koran were seen as a historical document, then it would be legitimate to reinterpret it to suit the new conditions of successive new ages. Laws made in the seventh century could finally give way to the needs of the 21st. The Islamic Reformation has to begin here, with an acceptance of the concept that all ideas, even sacred ones, must adapt to altered realities." http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=...
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CanadianSteve Member (Idle past 6500 days) Posts: 756 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Joined: |
There ahve been several fatwas signed by hundreds of Muslim clerics against violence committed against "innocents." The problem, as many analysts have noted, is that the war verses side of islam sees no infidels as innocent. Indded, even a few of clerics who signed these fatwas have, in other sources, said as much. Some may ask: But isn't this deception? islamists read the faith as sanctioning deception in the aim of furthering the faith imperialist obligations. They point out to deception practised by and sanctioned by Mohammed himself. Of course, non Islamist Muslims explain those passages and events differently. Nonetheless, this gives more credence to the picture of a civil war within Islam and the need of a reformation.
Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out - David Horowitz
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Nobody seems to be interested in thinking about the important facts you've been posting here. Too bad. You're about as popular as a biblical young-earth creationist. A small but elite company however.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Nobody seems to be interested in thinking about the important facts you've been posting here. Amazingly, some of us here can think without opening our mouths. Maybe it's a skill you should look into? Perhaps nobody's commented on Steve's posts because he's not currently defending any positions we've disputed. There's clearly a fracturous dialogue at play within the Muslim world. So what?
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mick Member (Idle past 5014 days) Posts: 913 Joined: |
so it's time for intelligent men and women to give up religion altogether. We all know that Christianity is a nasty ideology in the wrong mouths; Islam and Hinduism too. Let's give it all up and start THINKING
mick
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