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Author Topic:   The Blasphemy Challenge
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 31 of 134 (382622)
02-05-2007 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by anastasia
02-05-2007 2:18 PM


anastasia writes:
Been to Hot Topic lately?
Never heard of it.
I was responding to your statement:
quote:
It is rather lovely that this group sees christianity as its main threat...and making such statements as 'this challenge will end when christianity ends' turns atheism to a hate-mongering religion of its own, and will probably only fire more zeal in the hearts of christians.
I don't see any reference to a "bunch of mall-rats and rock-star wanna-bes".
General statement. General rsponse.
"This challenge will end when christianity ends" is like saying, "Charity will end when poverty ends." I don't see hate-mongering there.
Maybe throttle back on the martyr complex just a tad.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 2:18 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 3:27 PM ringo has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5952 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 32 of 134 (382633)
02-05-2007 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by ringo
02-05-2007 2:40 PM


Ringo writes:
Never heard of it.
Sorry, just one of those little stores which caters to the 'goth' and 'emo' kids...full of rosary beads, crosses, album covers with religious symbols and songs based on catholic chants, etc.
'Charity will end when poverty ends'. Hm. Charity, good. Poverty, bad.
Atheism, good. Christianity, bad. Sounds like WAR to me. It is just a shame that militant atheism can't do anything without first referencing God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 2:40 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 4:46 PM anastasia has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 33 of 134 (382647)
02-05-2007 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by anastasia
02-05-2007 3:27 PM


anastasia writes:
Charity, good. Poverty, bad.
Atheism, good. Christianity, bad.
Charity is good because poverty is bad. If you're going to draw the parallel, then an atheist "war" on bad "Christianity" would be good.
It is just a shame that militant atheism can't do anything without first referencing God.
Why a "shame"?

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 3:27 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 5:13 PM ringo has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5952 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 34 of 134 (382657)
02-05-2007 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by ringo
02-05-2007 4:46 PM


RIngo writes:
Charity is good because poverty is bad. If you're going to draw the parallel, then an atheist "war" on bad "Christianity" would be good.
Sure, for atheists. Of course, atheism is a rebel without a cause, there is really no 'good' for which it stands. It's a non-starter. It must prove itself 'good' or better, to make christianity 'bad'.
An atheist is what you call a person who can't describe themselves without first acknowledging God. The name says it all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 4:46 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by kuresu, posted 02-05-2007 5:23 PM anastasia has replied
 Message 36 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 5:27 PM anastasia has replied
 Message 51 by nator, posted 02-05-2007 7:49 PM anastasia has replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 35 of 134 (382660)
02-05-2007 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by anastasia
02-05-2007 5:13 PM


An atheist is what you call a person who can't describe themselves without first acknowledging God. The name says it all.
kuresu writes:
A theist is what you call a person who can't describe themselves without first acknowledging God. The name says it all.
really, what's your point?
i mean, we can stand for things that are good (and evil) just like any other group out there can. and we can describe ourselves without acknowledging God. I mean, atheism is just one of the things that describe. I'm also a bassist. guess that means I'm a person who can't describe myself without first acknowledging basses.

Question. Always Question.
" . . .and some nights I just pray to the god of sex and drugs and rock'n'roll"--meatloaf
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 5:13 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 5:49 PM kuresu has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 36 of 134 (382662)
02-05-2007 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by anastasia
02-05-2007 5:13 PM


anastasia writes:
It must prove itself 'good' or better, to make christianity 'bad'.
Christianity (or a subset of Christianity) could be "bad" compared to any alternative - e.g. Taoism, Wicca, Raelianism.
An atheist is what you call a person who can't describe themselves without first acknowledging God.
An atheist doesn't "acknowledge" God any more than an amoral person acknowledges morality.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 5:13 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 5:44 PM ringo has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5952 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 37 of 134 (382663)
02-05-2007 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by ringo
02-05-2007 5:27 PM


Ringo writes:
Christianity (or a subset of Christianity) could be "bad" compared to any alternative - e.g. Taoism, Wicca, Raelianism.
So what IS bad?
An atheist doesn't "acknowledge" God any more than an amoral person acknowledges morality.
An amoral person is likely not acknowledging his amorality. Amoral is what moral people call him. First, morality is recognized, then immorality. So, why do atheists use a word which recognizes God first?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 5:27 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by kuresu, posted 02-05-2007 5:50 PM anastasia has replied
 Message 40 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 5:57 PM anastasia has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5952 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 38 of 134 (382664)
02-05-2007 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by kuresu
02-05-2007 5:23 PM


kuresu writes:
really, what's your point?
That you all need a better publicist.
i mean, we can stand for things that are good (and evil) just like any other group out there can. and we can describe ourselves without acknowledging God. I mean, atheism is just one of the things that describe. I'm also a bassist. guess that means I'm a person who can't describe myself without first acknowledging basses.
Well. sort of. You have done an excellent job of standing up for 'good' just because its good, while at the same time insisting that 'good' is in our heads and is completely relative.
And yes, you obviously can't be a bassist without first acknowledging basses.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by kuresu, posted 02-05-2007 5:23 PM kuresu has not replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 39 of 134 (382665)
02-05-2007 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by anastasia
02-05-2007 5:44 PM


technically, atheist doesn't recognize god first. it recognizes "no" first. it recognizes the non-existance of God.
besides, how else would you neatly say you don't believe in God?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 5:44 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 6:06 PM kuresu has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 40 of 134 (382666)
02-05-2007 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by anastasia
02-05-2007 5:44 PM


anastasia writes:
So what IS bad?
Turning a blind eye to pedophilia, not speaking out against Naziism, pushing YECism into schools, discriminating against homosexuals.... I can go on if you can't come up with any examples of your own.
First, morality is recognized, then immorality.
You have that backwards. Amorality is the natural state - mosquitos are amoral. Bananas are amoral.
We learn morality from our culture. "Immorality" is failure to learn.
Soooo... by analogy, atheism is the natural state. Mosquitos are atheists. Bananas are atheists.
We can learn theism from our culture (or not). Failure to learn would be called "imtheism" if it was considered "bad".
So, why do atheists use a word which recognizes God first?
They don't. That would be "aTheism".

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 5:44 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 6:24 PM ringo has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5952 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 41 of 134 (382667)
02-05-2007 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by kuresu
02-05-2007 5:50 PM


kuresu writes:
technically, atheist doesn't recognize god first. it recognizes "no" first. it recognizes the non-existance of God.
besides, how else would you neatly say you don't believe in God?
Don't mention God at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by kuresu, posted 02-05-2007 5:50 PM kuresu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Doddy, posted 02-05-2007 6:43 PM anastasia has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5952 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 42 of 134 (382669)
02-05-2007 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by ringo
02-05-2007 5:57 PM


Ringo writes:
Turning a blind eye to pedophilia, not speaking out against Naziism, pushing YECism into schools, discriminating against homosexuals.... I can go on if you can't come up with any examples of your own.
No, Ringo, you have no proof that ANYTHING is bad except by some stupid relative moral standard. If your standard is relative, it can't be retro-active. It also can not be assumed to have been 'right' in any given situation. Oh, and christianity is a theology, not a group of priests, pastors, YEC's etc.
Amorality is the natural state - mosquitos are amoral. Bananas are amoral.
Mosquitoes and bananas? You can't compare us to fruits and insects, sorry. Non-admissable.
We learn morality from our culture. "Immorality" is failure to learn.
How did our culture learn morality? Why do we all fail to learn?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 5:57 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 6:30 PM anastasia has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 43 of 134 (382671)
02-05-2007 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by anastasia
02-05-2007 6:24 PM


anastasia writes:
If your standard is relative, it can't be retro-active.
I didn't say it was.
How did our culture learn morality?
From generation to generation.
Why do we all fail to learn?
That has been explained to you in another thread.
Mosquitoes and bananas? You can't compare us to fruits and insects, sorry.
I most certainly can. If you don't like the comparison, you'll have to tell us why.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 6:24 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 6:37 PM ringo has replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5952 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 44 of 134 (382672)
02-05-2007 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by ringo
02-05-2007 6:30 PM


If morality is learned from generation to generation, it is indeed relative to that generation, and not retro-active.
I have had no explanation in any other thread, save that of 'mal-function' which is quickly denied.
Mosquitoes are irrelevent to any discussion of atheism, but they make great fish-food in their larval state.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 6:30 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by ringo, posted 02-05-2007 7:08 PM anastasia has replied

  
Doddy
Member (Idle past 5909 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 45 of 134 (382674)
02-05-2007 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by anastasia
02-05-2007 6:06 PM


Anastasia writes:
Don't mention God at all.
It doesn't. A-theism is the absence of theism. It doesn't acknowledge any god or non-existence of a God, but it does acknowledge theism. It acknowledges only that some people believe in a gods or gods, then indicates the absence of that belief in the atheist.

"Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 6:06 PM anastasia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by anastasia, posted 02-05-2007 7:38 PM Doddy has not replied

  
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