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Author
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Topic: Why Would God Care?
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 61 of 217 (390697)
03-21-2007 3:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 59 by Phat
03-21-2007 3:21 PM
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Re: Remix
Phat writes: Was what I was taught wrong? That God knows my littlest thoughts and fears...and that He knows the number of hairs on my head? How would anyone know? And even so, what does that have to do with whether or not GOD would care what little Johnny thinks? How is that related in any way to what I said?
jar writes: As a believer I find it inconceivable that a GOD, a GOD who by a simple act of will, could create this universe would get upset over things such as those you have mentioned. The GOD who could will all of this wondrous universe into existence would not be insecure. That GOD would not be bothered if someone didn't believe in Her, at most would find it humorous; that GOD would see it more on the order of the ant who denied the existence of the human that dropped the crumbs. Phat writes: First of all, humans don't love ants. God loves humans. That is all the more support for my position. If GOD loves humans then why would She be upset by that they think of Her? And what makes you think humans don't love ants? Those of us who understand a little of the part they play in making this world what it is certainly love them. The point is, if GOD is actually something which could bring this whole universe into existence simply through an act of will, could that same being be so insecure that She would be bothered by what something as insignificant as a human thought?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 59 by Phat, posted 03-21-2007 3:21 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 63 by Phat, posted 03-21-2007 3:50 PM | | jar has replied |
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member
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Message 62 of 217 (390699)
03-21-2007 3:48 PM
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Reply to: Message 60 by Phat
03-21-2007 3:35 PM
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You give me the anger. You give me the nerve
"Sin" has several different meanings, and can refer to: Obviously, in this context, I was rerferring to the Nine Inch Nails song. Bravo for this stunningly useful contribution, Phat.
The issue is why God would or would not care. Good question. Be nice if someone could offer an answer at some point or another.
I mean...lets assume God could care less. Then what do we have? A series of fairly silly religions, for starters.
"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut." -Stephen Colbert
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 60 by Phat, posted 03-21-2007 3:35 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18300 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 63 of 217 (390701)
03-21-2007 3:50 PM
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Reply to: Message 61 by jar
03-21-2007 3:39 PM
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Re: Remix
Jar writes: The point is, if GOD is actually something which could bring this whole universe into existence simply through an act of will, could that same being be so insecure that She would be bothered by what something as insignificant as a human thought? Its not a matter of God being insecure. Would God care what we think? Gee...does a parent care what their kids think? Personally, I would be concerned if my kids played violent video games that had murders and rapists in a virtual world than if my kids hung out at the library. I probably wouldn't be so concerned about them touching themselves as long as they didn't isolate from normal development, though. Edited by Phat, : spell
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 61 by jar, posted 03-21-2007 3:39 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 64 by jar, posted 03-21-2007 4:08 PM | | Phat has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 64 of 217 (390707)
03-21-2007 4:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 63 by Phat
03-21-2007 3:50 PM
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Re: Remix
Its not a matter of God being insecure. Would God care what we think? Gee...does a parent care what their kids think? Not if they are a good parent.
Personally, I would be concerned if my kids played violent video games that had murders and rapists in a virtual world than if my kids hung out at the library. I probably wouldn't be so concerned about them touching themselves as long as they didn't isolate from normal development, though. There you go losing sight of the issue yet again. What does that have to do with GOD caring what folk think about GOD?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 63 by Phat, posted 03-21-2007 3:50 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 65 by Phat, posted 03-21-2007 4:12 PM | | jar has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18300 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 65 of 217 (390709)
03-21-2007 4:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 64 by jar
03-21-2007 4:08 PM
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Re: Remix
Jar writes: What does that have to do with GOD caring what folk think about GOD? In one sense, i can see that God is big enough to be unaffected by our behavior..in that perhaps He/She wants us to grow up and be responsible for our own choices. That does not mean that God is incapable of lending a helping hand out of a ditch once in awhile. After all...would you turn your back on your children?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 64 by jar, posted 03-21-2007 4:08 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 66 by jar, posted 03-21-2007 4:19 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 66 of 217 (390710)
03-21-2007 4:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 65 by Phat
03-21-2007 4:12 PM
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Still changing the subject.
In one sense, i can see that God is big enough to be unaffected by our behavior..in that perhaps He/She wants us to grow up and be responsible for our own choices. That does not mean that God is incapable of lending a helping hand out of a ditch once in awhile. After all...would you turn your back on your children? Again, what does that have to do with anything I have said? I have NOT talked about behavior. GOD has given us guidelines, not for GOD's pleasure, but for ours. And as to children, hell yes there are times that you do NOT help them, you stand back and stop holding on to the bike, you let them drive off out of sight in the car, you let them make the trip to the mountains or off to college. The good parent has to let go, to stop helping, to let the child do it alone.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 65 by Phat, posted 03-21-2007 4:12 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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What makes you think god cares?
Read the post directly above yours.
quote:
So far I don't see that you've shown that God claims to care. If he doesn't, any restriction people place on their behavior for the sake of religion alone is a pretty major waste of time
Not if the behavior seperated them from god (sin) even if god doesn't care (my wacked out version of the word).
I'd want to know what whacked out version of the word "care" you're using. I'm using it in the sense you did in the OP that if god is taking care of this whole universe, why would he care about one negligible part. I think that he doesn't care, but that it is still important to limit the bahaviors that seperate you from god. I don't see hell as god punishing you because he's mad at your behaviors. I see it as you seperating yourself from god far enough that you can't come back. But that is off topic.
I don't think calling something a sin neccessarily means that god cares about it in the sense that you are using it. A sin is an action which God feels should be punished by eternal torture.
That's not how I define sin. I'd define it as an act that seperates you from god. So, even if god doesn't care that I seperate myself from him, it doesn't mean that it is a waste of time for me to avoid the behaviors that seperate me from him. Make sense?
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member
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So basically, you're arguing that without any action on God's part whatsoever, we get damned if we sin, because of some cosmic law of spiritual cause and effect. Sin, get separated, get damned, all without intervention from God. Of course, to be able to say God didn't care, this would have to be a law that God didn't set into motion. Otherwise he must have had some reason for it.
"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut." -Stephen Colbert
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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So basically, you're arguing that without any action on God's part whatsoever, we get damned if we sin, because of some cosmic law of spiritual cause and effect. Sin, get separated, get damned, all without intervention from God. Well sorta, but like you said... it would all be a par of God's Plan (TM). But I do agree that its kinda stupid that god would say something like: "Well, Johnny, I was going to let you into heaven but you touched yourself so burn in hell forever." That's why I think he doesn't care, in the sense that he watching us touch ourselves (wierdo) and then picking these little things out as reasons to torture us later.
Otherwise he must have had some reason for it. I put the blame on ourselves for seperating ourselves from him. And I think it takes a lifetime of seperating via different methods to finally get the point of damnation (or maybe one really really big one, i dunno). What I'm trying to say is that I don't think that god cares that you touch yourself at night, but it isn't doing anything to bring you closer to god, so it isn't totally pointless to avoid the behavior. You said that if god doesn't care then its pointless to avoid it, I don't think that is neccassarily true. You're right, though, that he set the whole thing up and that he must have some reason for it.
Of course, to be able to say God didn't care, this would have to be a law that God didn't set into motion. Why is that? Couldn't the law be faily simple and not get down to the gnat's ass on what you're touching? Something like: any behavior that seperated you from me could lead to your damnation. But go and do whatever you want, I don't care.
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3479 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: 04-25-2004
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Re: Does God Claim to Care?
quote:
If he doesn't, any restriction people place on their behavior for the sake of religion alone is a pretty major waste of time.
It may be a wasted effort, but not a waste of time. People place restrictions on their behavior for many different reasons and not all of them deal with religion. But you still haven't shown that God claims to care about the trivial matter in question.
Why does someone believe you when you say there are four billion stars, but check when you say the paint is wet?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 56 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-21-2007 11:54 AM | | Dan Carroll has replied |
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member
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You're right, though, that he set the whole thing up and that he must have some reason for it. Oh. So he does care. Why?
Something like: any behavior that seperated you from me could lead to your damnation. But go and do whatever you want, I don't care. To continue the anthill metaphor, would you take the time to approach a colony of ants, and tell them that if they step outta line, they're gonna suffer? Especially if you don't care at all about ants?
"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut." -Stephen Colbert
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member
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Re: Does God Claim to Care?
It may be a wasted effort, but not a waste of time. People place restrictions on their behavior for many different reasons and not all of them deal with religion. Yeah, that's why I singled out those that do.
But you still haven't shown that God claims to care about the trivial matter in question. The trivial matters I'm talking about are the ones forbidden by major religions. If masturbation isn't your fancy, pick any one you please. If God forbids an act, that means he cares if we do it or not. My question is for those who believe these acts are forbidden. If that describes you, feel free to go ahead and answer it any old time. Four pages have passed now, and still nobody seems to have even really tried.
"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut." -Stephen Colbert
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 70 by purpledawn, posted 03-21-2007 7:03 PM | | purpledawn has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 77 by purpledawn, posted 03-22-2007 7:43 AM | | Dan Carroll has replied |
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member
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Double Post
 Edited by AdminPhat, : Double Post
"I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut." -Stephen Colbert
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 70 by purpledawn, posted 03-21-2007 7:03 PM | | purpledawn has not replied |
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Oh. So he does care. Why? Why not? Because you think we're so insignificat? Maybe we're in 1st place. I think he cares because we're his.
To continue the anthill metaphor, would you take the time to approach a colony of ants, and tell them that if they step outta line, they're gonna suffer? Especially if you don't care at all about ants? I was taking a wizz out in the woods while not realizing my right leg was on an anthill. They started crawling up my leg, which made it feel like it was going to sleep. I looked down and saw the ants about knee high. I proceded to kill every ant on me and brush them off while not trying to piss on myself. After I was clean, I admired the anthill and walked back to my friends. I didn't care at all about the ants and they suffered for stepping out of line.
Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence. Letting the reigns go to the unfolding is faith, faith, faith, faith. Science has failed our world. Science has failed our Mother Earth. -System of a Down, "Science" He who makes a beast out of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man. -Avenged Sevenfold, "Bat Country"
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member
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Re: Does God Claim to Care?
The trivial matters I'm talking about are the ones forbidden by major religions. If masturbation isn't your fancy, pick any one you please. If God forbids an act, that means he cares if we do it or not. Like I said in my first reply:
quote:
are you asking why is it considered a sin?
Its because they seperate you from god. God is something and some behaviors remove you from what god is. I don't think god cares or gets mad and punishes you for seperating youself from him. When you seperate yourself from god you're "damned" to be without god.
My question is for those who believe these acts are forbidden. I think they're forbidden so that people realize what they are doing when they do them. If they are, in fact, sin, then forbidding them worked as a way to prevent them, thus keeping many people from seperating themselves from god. It seems that as people are catching on, that simply forbidding is not the best method and that learning how the behavior seperates you from god but also how god doesn't really care, you just need to watch out on the seperating and try to stay close.
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