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Author Topic:   War on Christmas
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1628 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 196 of 245 (595530)
12-09-2010 7:51 AM


Grinch Alert!
First Baptist Church of Dallas, TX, put up this web site, Grinch Alert! to help keep Christmas everywhere.

Have you encountered a Grinch this Christmas season? Share your experiences here at GrinchAlert.com! Here, you can nominate businesses and organizations that shut-out expressions of Christmas in their interactions with the public via marketing, advertising and public relations. When companies use misplaced political correctness to halt the celebration of Christmas, they belong on the Naughty List.

We also want to know which companies are celebrating Christmas with excitement and meaningespecially those who keep Christ in Christmas where He belongs! Those companies and organizations will be placed on our Nice List. Help us preserve Christ this Christmas.

Christmas has a secular side that business can exploit if they don't wish to promote religion.

If we look at the Naughty List, I see some rather unreasonable expectations from businesses.

Since we are not a theocracy, why expect any government entity to promote any one religious holiday?

Since we are a land of freedom, why expect a secular business to provide religious merchandise?

I understand why some Christians feel there is a "war against Christmas". They've been allowed to do as they please for so long, they don't like what they view as "being restricted".

Some say the government can promote all religions, but don't want to allow the choice of doing nothing.

If one wants merchandise with religious icons, go to a religious store or make them yourself. Why chastise a secular business that chooses to be neutral or secular?

The word holiday refers to more than just religious observances.

1: holy day
2: a day on which one is exempt from work; specifically : a day marked by a general suspension of work in commemoration of an event
3: chiefly British : vacation often used in the phrase on holiday often used in plural
4: a period of exemption or relief

There is more than one religious festival in December. So the greeting of Happy Holidays is appropriate for a secular Business. Some people consider the season to run from Thanksgiving to New Year's day. In that case there are three Federal holidays.

Businesses don't want Christmas to go away, typically it's the largest annual economic stimulus for many nations; but they're going to make it serve their purpose not that of the religion.

Christians just don't have control over the government or businesses like they thought they did. I think that's what bothers them.


Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Coragyps, posted 12-09-2010 9:08 AM purpledawn has responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5393
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 197 of 245 (595539)
12-09-2010 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by purpledawn
12-09-2010 7:51 AM


Re: Grinch Alert!
I saw this in my local newspaper last night.

The site says, "When companies use misplaced political correctness to halt the celebration of Christmas.... Who the hell is doing that, I wonder?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by purpledawn, posted 12-09-2010 7:51 AM purpledawn has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by purpledawn, posted 12-09-2010 10:08 AM Coragyps has responded

    
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1628 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 198 of 245 (595545)
12-09-2010 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 197 by Coragyps
12-09-2010 9:08 AM


Re: Grinch Alert!
The biggest concern seems to be replacing Merry Christmas with Happy Holidays. The Merry Christmas greeting didn't come about until about 1699.

The word merry itself arouses in us the feelings of joy and happiness associated with the festival of Christmas. Though the Christmas celebrations, as history tells us commenced from the 4th century AD, it was only in the year 1699, that the phrase Merry Christmas came to be used. An English admiral plays a significant role in the History of Merry Christmas, as it is he who used the term Merry Christmas for the first time in an informal letter in 1699.

Even before Christmas became a Federal holiday, Christmas in early America wasn't celebrated the same by all. Some frowned upon the merry making and partying. They didn't consider the celebration Biblical.

Carols weren't always a part of a Christian Church celebration.

The popularity of Christmas was spurred during the 1800s. In 1834 Prince Albert the husband of Queen Victoria introduced the custom of Christmas trees and carols from Germany. The Christian churches felt the importance of Christmas celebration from then. In the early days carols were barred from the premises of the church, as it was again referred to as non-Christian. Simple folks or nativity carols were performed outside the church. It was St. Francis who actually brought carols into the formal worship of the church.

Just as early Christians adjusted the Pagan festivals to their needs, Christians today need to adjust to the secular markets use of holidays.

Only the Christians pursued the Roman Pagan Festival or Saturnalia in order to avoid persecution by the Romans.

It doesn't change what they do in their church or home.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Coragyps, posted 12-09-2010 9:08 AM Coragyps has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Coragyps, posted 12-09-2010 10:25 AM purpledawn has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30994
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 199 of 245 (595546)
12-09-2010 10:13 AM


Blame it on der Bingle.
It's all Bing Crosby's fault.

quote:
Happy Holiday
Happy holiday, happy holiday
While the merry bells keep ringing
May your ev'ry wish come true

Happy holiday, happy holiday
May the calendar keep bringing
Happy holidays to you

Come To Holiday Inn
If you're burdened down with trouble
If your nerves are wearing thin
Park your load down the road
And come to Holiday Inn

If the traffic noise affects you
Like a squeaky violin
Kick your cares down the stairs
And come to Holiday Inn

If you can't find someone who
Would set your heart a-whirl
Take your car and motor to
The home of boy meets girl

If you're laid-up with a breakdown
Throw away your vitamin
Don't get worse, grab your nurse
And come to Holiday Inn



Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5393
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 200 of 245 (595554)
12-09-2010 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by purpledawn
12-09-2010 10:08 AM


Re: Grinch Alert!
It's amusing, too, to look at the "Nice" list and see how many of the "nice" people are commended for having a decorated tree. I wonder if Rev. Jeffress would put that behavior on the naughty side if he were the one picking where to place comments - or does he think Spruce = Baby Jesus?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by purpledawn, posted 12-09-2010 10:08 AM purpledawn has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by purpledawn, posted 12-10-2010 6:25 AM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 148 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 201 of 245 (595557)
12-09-2010 10:32 AM


my standard reply:

"do you celebrate christmas? ... do you celebrate new years? ... okay, well, have a great time on both of those holidays."


אָרַח

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by frako, posted 12-10-2010 7:34 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1628 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 202 of 245 (595731)
12-10-2010 6:25 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by Coragyps
12-09-2010 10:25 AM


Re: Grinch Alert!
It is interesting that the first Christmas Tree was considered blasphemous by some.

Christmas (Christ-Mass) as we know it today, most historians agree, began in Germany, though Catholics and Lutherans still disagree about which church celebrated it first. The earliest record of an evergreen being decorated in a Christian celebration was in 1521 in the Alsace region of Germany. A prominent Lutheran minister of the day cried blasphemy: Better that they should look to the true tree of life, Christ.

Now, for some, the lack of one or not calling it a Christmas tree is considered blasphemous.

How times change and that's in under 500 years.

ABE: I haven't noticed anyone refraining from saying Merry Christmas. I also haven't noticed anyone saying Happy Holidays. Most businesses around here just say the standard thank you and have a nice day.

Would they make the naughty list for doing business as usual?

Edited by purpledawn, : ABE


This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Coragyps, posted 12-09-2010 10:25 AM Coragyps has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by Apothecus, posted 12-10-2010 2:42 PM purpledawn has not yet responded

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2360 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 203 of 245 (595795)
12-10-2010 1:01 PM


The idea of war on Christmas is absurd. If a person hangs with A mixed crowd, different ethnicities, religious beliefs and customs,
Happy Holidays makes more sense that saying, Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, Happy St. Nicholas day, Happy Winter Solstice, Happy Kwanzaa, Happy New Year, Happy Epiphany and I add another among friends and relatives happy Bluescatmas (9 Jan)
happy holidays covers all bases and offends no-one.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by dwise1, posted 12-10-2010 1:54 PM bluescat48 has responded

    
nwr
Member
Posts: 5585
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 204 of 245 (595799)
12-10-2010 1:41 PM


Lithodid-Man writes:
... the conversation has gone from posting funny things to discussion of the political correctness of saying "Merry Christmas"

The expression "Merry Christmas" seems to suggest a drunken orgy. I would have thought that "Happy Holidays" would be a better fit with fundamentalist Christianity.


Jesus was a liberal hippie
  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3491
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 205 of 245 (595801)
12-10-2010 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by bluescat48
12-10-2010 1:01 PM


happy holidays covers all bases and offends no-one.

Except for those who want to force their own religion on everybody else.

Or those who want to propagate a deception that they are being persecuted.


Quoting from memory, a Bob Newhart Show (where he was a psychologist) scene last seen decades ago:

quote:

Black Patient: Everybody hates me because I'm black.
Bob: Uh, no, they hate you because you are not a nice person.
Patient (visibly very touched and almost in tears): Really? Do you think so?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by bluescat48, posted 12-10-2010 1:01 PM bluescat48 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by bluescat48, posted 12-10-2010 6:19 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
Apothecus
Member (Idle past 581 days)
Posts: 275
From: CA USA
Joined: 01-05-2010


Message 206 of 245 (595811)
12-10-2010 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by purpledawn
12-10-2010 6:25 AM


Re: Grinch Alert!
Hey PD,

My business (retail) places a few strings of lights and a small tinsel tree on the counter by the cash register. I've frequently needed to halt mid-sentence and change what would have been, "Merry Christmas" to "Happy Holidays." I think this tends to be a carryover from my years as a Christian rather than a subconscious need to conform to what is considered to be the norm for mid-to-late December greetings.

I don't think I've gotten any dirty looks from anyone, rosaried old ladies included, which tells me I'm sure they think I'm actually saying "Merry Christmas" while my mouth forms different words. I'd really enjoy wishing all my patients a Happy Saturnalia, but judging by the responses I've gotten from those Christians whom I've informed of this little tidbit, it'd be somewhat hard on business.

So "Happy Holidays" it is. I wonder if this'd put us on the "naughty list?"

Have a good one.


"My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose. J.B.S Haldane 1892-1964
This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by purpledawn, posted 12-10-2010 6:25 AM purpledawn has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Coragyps, posted 12-10-2010 4:57 PM Apothecus has not yet responded
 Message 210 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-13-2010 5:03 PM Apothecus has not yet responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5393
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 207 of 245 (595848)
12-10-2010 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Apothecus
12-10-2010 2:42 PM


Re: Grinch Alert!
I wonder if this'd put us on the "naughty list?"

So it appears from the lists on the website. Now, they haven't posted my comment there yet. Busy shopping, I guess.....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Apothecus, posted 12-10-2010 2:42 PM Apothecus has not yet responded

    
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2360 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 208 of 245 (595861)
12-10-2010 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by dwise1
12-10-2010 1:54 PM


Except for those who want to force their own religion on everybody else.

Or those who want to propagate a deception that they are being persecuted.

Well, if they want to persecute themselves, so be it.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by dwise1, posted 12-10-2010 1:54 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 209 of 245 (595867)
12-10-2010 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by arachnophilia
12-09-2010 10:32 AM


my standard reply:

"do you celebrate christmas? ... do you celebrate new years? ... okay, well, have a great time on both of those holidays."

You still have to ask on witch dates.

To take Serbs for an example they celebrate Christmas on the 7. January and new year on the 14th. Tough they still celebrate the "civil" new year on the 1st. This is because the Serbian Orthodox church uses the Julian calendar that is 13 days behind the normal calendar. Oh an on a noter note the 14th is considered by them new year or the day of Jesus circumcision the 8th day after the birth.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by arachnophilia, posted 12-09-2010 10:32 AM arachnophilia has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-13-2010 5:11 PM frako has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 210 of 245 (596174)
12-13-2010 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Apothecus
12-10-2010 2:42 PM


Re: Grinch Alert!
I'd really enjoy wishing all my patients a Happy Saturnalia, but judging by the responses I've gotten from those Christians whom I've informed of this little tidbit, it'd be somewhat hard on business.

Last panel is for you, Charlie Brown:


This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Apothecus, posted 12-10-2010 2:42 PM Apothecus has not yet responded

  
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