Does Allah = Moon God?

Means nothing? Wrong! You people would like for it to mean nothing for the propagation of your bankrupt arguments. LOL! It means everything pertaining to this topic. It means Allah is a remade moon god by Mohammed so as replace the Judeo Christian god, Jehovah with his pagan moon god, Allah. It means Ishmael's descendents, not Isaac's are the messianic people under Mohammed rather than Jesus. Wrong. All the evidence means something. It is part of the historical and archeological evidence tracing Allah back to the pagan moon god. The ban on worshipping the moon perse is irrevelant to this debate. There is a big, big differance in worshipping the moon itself and worshipping the rehashed moon god, remodeled by Mohammed to replace Jehovah the Biblical god. Wrong again. I have already established that there is no connection with the Judeo-Christian god, Jehovah. There was no Jehovah at Mecca! There was only Allah and 300 plus other pagan gods. There has been absolutely no evidence presented in this whole thread thus far connecting Allah with Jehovah. Please support your claim with some evidence.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

Please clarify. It means what, specifically?
quote: Wrong. It's all part of the historical trail connecting Allah with moon god. Strawman. It's also corroborating evidence that Allah=moon god. Pure yada. No reason for it in the Bible. Another strawman. It has everything to do with corroborating evidence. Your strawmen and unsubstantial responses here are not even worth my time in response. You're denying and pshawing all the evidence here with your silly responses.From here on, I'm only going to respond to whatever appears to have any significance at all. It is part of the trail of Allah back to paganism. Pagans also had their supreme gods, for example the Hindu Brahma, et al. And as I have shown over and over, el/elohim is generic for any god and only refers to the Biblical Jehovah by context and only context within the Bible. Allah has connections with moon god, but none with Biblical Jehovah. But Mohammed's Allah is a proper name of his god which has a historical and archeological trail back to moon god. But again, elohim is not the name of the Biblical god, Jehovah. Allah is the proper name of the Islamic god only. Yes, the brother of Isaac who's descendents were to be the messianic line, receiving the blessing and the land. You admit Allah was pagan. Now we're getting some place. Now your job is to prove that Allah = the god/elohim, Jehovah and that Jehovah, like Islam's Allah emerged from the moon god. You can't do it, so my advice is, don't waste your time. The crescent moon is so the symbol of Islam. Get a grip!The stuff I've declined to spend my time on is nothing but rhetoric. Arach says something, anything, regardless of substance so as to wishful think he's refuted. LOL. I've got more important stuff to do than reply to yada.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

The sword is not the moon. Off topic.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

Buz this thread is even sillier than your Isaiah 7 thread or the Xmas thread. The preposterous lies in the linked site in your OP were completely refuted in Message 18 and Message 217 and most recently in Message 220.Buz, all you are doing here is showing how little you know about any religion, Islam, Judaism or Christianity.The Crescent moon symbol was not adopted until the 1400's and even then not because it had any connection with some moon good, but because it was the flag of the Ottoman Empire.Allah is YHWH. It really is as simple as that. If Allah created the universe, the stars, the sun, the moon, Allah cannot be some moon god. To assert that is to simply insult the intelligence of anyone who reads the Bible or the Qur'an.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Who are you trying to kid, Modulous? You call this so called definition of Mohammed's pagan god Allah evidence that Allah is the Biblical Jehovah? Have you been reading? How many times do I need to repeat that Mohammed needed to remake his supreme god Allah one and the same as Jehovah the Biblical god so as to eliminate Jehovah and substitute Allah as the Biblical god? How many times do I need to tell you people that elohim in the Bible is generic and the name of no god, whereas in the Quran Allah is a proper name of Mohammed's god? Allah and Jehovah are not one and the same.Your job, like Arach's is to prove that Jehovah, the Biblical god, like Allah the Quranic god emerged from the moon god, Sin, et al. You cannot do it!!

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

That Mohammed claimed his pagan Quranic god Allah rather than the Biblical god, Jehovah created the heavens does not make it so. That Mohammed's Allah has historical and archeological ties to the pagan moon god is not an insult. It is science, i.e. historical and archeological evidence.How about you Jar. Can you tie the Biblcal god, Jehovah archeologically and historically to the pagan moon god as our evidence has done with the Quranic god, Allah? LOL!

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

There is no need to buz. It is also Off Topic. The word Allah is not the name of a god, but rather the term GOD. As you have been told, Arabic Christians pray to Allah.You have not proved in any way that Allah, the GOD of the Jews, Muslims and Christians is some moon god, all you have done is assert it. On the other hand, in Message 18, and in Message 217, and again in Message 229 and other messages in this very thread we have shown that Allah created the heavens, the stars, the sun and the moon.There's another thread where we are discussing the origins of the Judaic God. Perhaps you'd like to join us there.In the meantime, as I and many others here have pointed out, the dog you run out of the kennel in the OP don't hunt. A simple reading of the Qur'an will show that Allah is not a moon god.The readers of this thread will be able to see who has supported their position.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

You have shown no evidence of your claims, all you are doing is repeating your claims over and over again, nothing you claim as evidence shows that allah = Moon god, showing that they named sin a moon god Allah doesn't equal that they worship the moon god still.All of the so called evidence is purely conjecture and assumptions because at one time they called sin allah i guess looking at the qualities of the god they worship is meaningless to you then? so instead we will contunue in this pointless vain of junk, even though the god they worship has the same qualities and does the same things yahweh does, oh but wait because hes called something else that makes him a different god!how utterly brillent of you

So basically your response is to declare claims with little to no relevance as strong evidence and to declare strong evidence irrelevant.The fact that Islam forbids moon worship proves that the Islamic God is not a moon God. A moon God is directly identified with the Moon - that is the definition.The assertion that the name "Sinai" is related to the old Arab moon God Sin is simply not relevant. If you disagee then you need to explain why.As for this:

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PaulK writes:

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You'll notice that the only part with real detail or offering significant evidence is the disucssion of pre-Islamic beliefs - but that's the least important part. It means nothing unless significant connections can be drawn.

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Means nothing? Wrong! You people would like for it to mean nothing for the propagation of your bankrupt arguments. LOL! It means everything pertaining to this topic. It means Allah is a remade moon god by Mohammed so as replace the Judeo Christian god, Jehovah with his pagan moon god, Allah. It means Ishmael's descendents, not Isaac's are the messianic people under Mohammed rather than Jesus.

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The fact is that pre-Islamic moon worship has nothing to do with whether Ishamael's or Isacc's descendantas are the "messianic people". Indeed by even referring to the idea you are admitting Muhammad's dependance on Jewish - not pagan Arab - belief.But what is worse is the start where you claim that the lack of evidence for your view proves you are right. What more proof do we need that it is your your position that is intellectually bankrupt ??This message has been edited by PaulK, 05-04-2006 06:01 AM

This is not the thread Does Allah = YHWH. This is the thread Does Allah = Moon God.Your source says that Allah is never defined in the Qu'ran because the Arabs already knew who he was - evidence that he is the moon god, Sin. I provided you with one verse which defines Allah. Its not a 'so called' definition. Its as good as any verse in the Holy Bible at defining YHWH. The Koran does define Allah as the all powerful, ever present, all merciful creator God who revealed himself to Abraham, Ismael, Moses etc. To say that the Koran does not define Allah is thus wrong.abe: Here's another verse defining Allah: And there are numerous versus that describe some of His attributes. He is all knowing, merciful, gracious, mighty, wise, and forgiving. He is the best of judges, the Aware, He is our Lord, He is glorious, He is the only God.Are you sure you agree with your source that Allah is not defined? Oh right, sorry Buz, I thought simply repeating your point was frowned on around here. How about you actually provide credible evidence rather than that site you just posted which has shown to get it wrong. By myself I have shown two statements in it to be entirely false. Simple, obvious and rudimentary statements that anybody who has even skimmed through the Koran and spoken to a Muslim will know is entirely false. Arach has done a little more, but personally I feel that showing such glaring errors should demonstrate that the source is unreliable.I was hoping you might see that a source that gets these things wrong, might be worth dropping, but you have decided to defend Morey's Islamic ignorance with emotive pleading, asking whether or not I have been reading. Irrelevant to the thread Buz. If Allah's proper name is Allah, how can he be Sin, whose proper name is Sin? No, at best that would be our job in Origins of the Judeo-Christian god and religion, which I am not participating in. It is your job to prove that Allah = Sin as per your OP. So far, the best you have done is shown that the chief god of the pre-Islamic Arabic pantheon was referred to as Allah and his name was Sin. You haven't been able to show a great deal above and beyond that if we're honest.This message has been edited by Modulous, Thu, 04-May-2006 01:05 PM

If it's off topic why do you people keep insisting that Allah is the one and same as the Biblical Jehovah? You're on topic to alleg that and I'm off topic to show that it isn't so? Is that the way it works? Besides, it's on topic so long as it relates directly to the discussion of the moon god/Allah debate as is the case here. The main reason for this thread is to show that if the Allah emerges from the moon god, then Allah and Jehovah are not one and the same since Jehovah does not. This thread is a spin off from that closed thread for this purpose. Well then, what is the name of the Quranic god of Mohammed? It certainly is not Jehovah. If it were, preaching Jehovah would be cool in Islamic theocratic nations. What is the name of their god?? All gods have a name.Mohammed's pagan supreme god's name is simply Allah. That it happens to be either similar or the same as the generic word for all gods obfuscates the debate so as to appear that this pagan god is essentially all gods, but that just is not so. You people are naievely buying into that falisy! Just because he claims his pagan supreme god is the only supreme god doesn't make it so. Where in the Quran does he dissassociate his made over moon god from the pagan god which was worshipped at Mecca? He doesn't!
Where in the Quran does he name his pagan god Allah Jehovah? He doesn't! The god of the Bible is in the early manuscripts of the OT over 6000 times but not once in the Quran!! I/we've presented mountains of evidence. Your side of the debate has admitted it but claim it's irrevelant. I can't help it if you blindly and bulligerantly insist on denying it now.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

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[6.76] So when the night over-shadowed him, he saw a star; said he: Is this my Lord? So when it set, he said: I do not love the setting ones.
[6.77] Then when he saw the moon rising, he said: Is this my Lord? So when it set, he said: If my Lord had not guided me I should certainly be of the erring people.
[6.78] Then when he saw the sun rising, he said: Is this my Lord? Is this the greatest? So when it set, he said: O my people! surely I am clear of what you set up (with Allah).
[6.79] Surely I have turned myself, being upright, wholly to Him Who originated the heavens and the earth, and I am not of the polytheists.

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Seems to cover it nicely. Allah not the a god that polythists have, they believe in gods like the sun and the moon which rise and set.There is quite a lot in there stressing that Allah and polytheism should not be associated.

quote:

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[3.95] Say: Allah has spoken the truth, therefore follow the religion of Ibrahim, the upright one; and he was not one of the polytheists.

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This message has been edited by Modulous, Thu, 04-May-2006 02:28 PM

Because the topic, your topic, is the allegation that the Islamic Allah is some moon god. Showing that Allah and YHWH are the same GOD is on topic when refuting your allegations. You picked the topic buz.But what IS off topic is your assertion that: The origin of YHWH has nothing to do with your assertion that Allah refers to some moon god. There are many names of Allah just as there are many names for YHWH. If you like, I can refer you to links for nearly a hundred such names. And guess what, they are the same as used for YHWH, names like "Most High", "the Merciful One" or "All Powerful".Allah simply means GOD. It is exactly the same thing you say when you speak of GOD. The terms Allah and GOD are synonymous.If you knew anything about the faiths you are discussing, you would know that the actual name of GOD is not used. There are several reasons for that, respect and the old belief that knowing the real name of something gives you power over it. Jehovah is NOT the name of GOD, but rather a German bastardized translation of YHWH. GOD said "I am that I am". That is his name. He is that which IS. Again, that statement is simply false and this has been pointed out to you by me as well as many other posters in this thread. We have given you quote after quote from the Qur'an that shows your assertion is simply false. But in addition to all the others we've supplied for you, here is yet another.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

When pronounced it was pronounced as The Lord, out of respect. Muslims too call Him 'The Lord' and they also call him the The Self-Existing which looks to me as another way of wording 'I am that I am', I was gratified to learn that I'm not the only person to make the connection.

If you look into Judaism you'll find that there are well over 100 names for GOD, and that they are in many cases the same or variations of the names of Allah. They are terms like "the Protector", "the Holy One", "the Holy one of Isreal", "the Spirit of God", "the Holy Spirit", and there is even a 304,805 letter name of God.You can find some of the Judaic names of God and the history involved here.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion