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Author Topic:   Deism in the Dock
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3986
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.1


Message 71 of 270 (415585)
08-11-2007 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
08-08-2007 8:13 PM


Agnostics Rule
Straggler writes:
To Agnostics
Oh who cares what you guys think?
We agnostics are more loyal to logic than either the atheist or deist/theist camps: any God or "ultimate reality" is unknown and probably unknowable.
The rest of you just like to choose sides and pick fights.
Extremists, all of you--true believers, every last one.

Real things always push back.
-William James
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Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Straggler, posted 08-08-2007 8:13 PM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Itachi Uchiha, posted 08-11-2007 12:43 AM Omnivorous has not replied
 Message 78 by crashfrog, posted 08-11-2007 1:15 AM Omnivorous has replied
 Message 82 by PaulK, posted 08-11-2007 5:44 AM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3986
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.1


Message 85 of 270 (415641)
08-11-2007 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by crashfrog
08-11-2007 1:15 AM


to the smartest kid in his room
crash writes:
We agnostics are more loyal to logic than either the atheist or deist/theist camps: any God or "ultimate reality" is unknown and probably unknowable.
Any God? Surely not, Omni. The degree to which a God is knowable certainly depends on how it is defined, but obviously just appending the word "God" to describe something doesn't automatically render it beyond all capacity of knowledge.
Hmm...capacity of knowledge, capacity of knowledge, capacity of knowledge... You sure you're a verbally gifted language professional?
Splitting linguistic hairs outside the context provided by the thread doesn't make you more logical, crash, but it does seem (what's that word you like to apply to others so much?) masturbatory.
I mean, think it through. You say any God, but obviously if I define "God" as "a penguin who lives in a box in Times Square", it's easy enough to go see if there's really one there or not.
You think it through, tadpole.
You could define a singularity as your asshole and collect data scientists never dreamed would be available. So what? Others could define your asshole as a singularity, too, but if scientists are attempting to determine whether or not it is, in fact, a singularity, they won't be asking themselves whether you are an asshole.
I didn't say "the existence of any God"--the construction of "God or ultimate reality" is quite clear in the context of this thread. Don't be deliberately thick. You do well enough casually.
Still, let's look at your boo-boo. If I put a penquin in a box in Times Square and call it God, and you verify its presence, you'll accept that it is a god? How would you determine that? No, not the trivial quibble of whether or not someone calls it a god, but whether it has the god-like nature and power addressed by this thread.
Wringing its neck or noting its refusal to perform miracles won't work. Cannot a god sacrifice itself or remain deaf to prayer? You once believed those things possible for a god, if I recall correctly.
How God is defined makes a big difference. It's a little ridiculous to pretend like you've made this great commitment to logic at the same time you seem completely adverse to using any, ever.
For the purposes of this thread, God was already defined. You're like the context-free kid who runs into the nudist colony screaming, "The Emperor has no clothes!"
By the way, the word is averse, O wisest of poopy-headed penquin pilgrims.
If you're going to split other people's hairs, comb your own first.

Real things always push back.
-William James
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by crashfrog, posted 08-11-2007 1:15 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by crashfrog, posted 08-11-2007 1:37 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3986
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.1


Message 87 of 270 (415657)
08-11-2007 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by PaulK
08-11-2007 5:44 AM


Re: Agnostics Rule
PaulK writes:
Although this is a joke, some agnostics really DO take this attitude.
Which is self-refuting, since they claim to know the beliefs of people they've never interacted with - although their logic should tell them that they do not.
PaulK, I simply take people at their word, devout and disbeliever alike.
It's true that self-identified atheists may secretly believe, and the self-identified religious may secretly not, but I'm just a simple Unfrozen Caveman agnostic and accept their declarations at face value.
If some of them are lying, who does that refute?

Real things always push back.
-William James
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by PaulK, posted 08-11-2007 5:44 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by PaulK, posted 08-12-2007 5:46 AM Omnivorous has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3986
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.1


Message 93 of 270 (415687)
08-11-2007 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by crashfrog
08-11-2007 1:37 PM


Re: to the smartest kid in his room
You sure you're a verbally gifted language professional?
I'm pretty sure I'm an English major dropout, actually. Not sure what your point is, here.
Crash, if you can't recall any of your posts asserting authoritative langauge skills based on your studies, acting, and native intelligence, I'll find one for you. Why pretend otherwise when my posting the material will only make you look ridiculous?
Still, I don't really mind that--you are obviously a bright and articulate person, one I often agree with, esp. politically. But seizing on a word out of context and progressing from myopic misrepresentation to insult was stupid.
You screwed up. Just accept that. Move on.
crash writes:
Any God. That's precisely what you said.
More precisely, it is one word in a post of many words conditioned by the context of the thread's OP and other posts to date. Jumping up and down and yelling "It's what you said! It's what you said!" when called for taking a remark out of context is childish.
Don't get all disingenuous in a huff, Omni. I was trying to keep this civil but now you're all up in a tizzy because someone actually read what you wrote.
Crash, laughing at you does not consistute a tizzy.
The civil part must have been where you said:
It's a little ridiculous to pretend like you've made this great commitment to logic at the same time you seem completely adverse to using any, ever.
I see you preferred to ignore rather than attempt to refute my comments about context. I'm not surprised, but I am still smiling.
Take it down a notch. You were wrong. It happens. Get over it.
No, kid, you were wrong.
Oops, so it is. Well, what do you expect? I'm just a dirty fucking atheist hippy, not one of you oh-so-superior, Vulcan-logic-using agnostic superminds.
Now that you understand that, you can grow.

Real things always push back.
-William James
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by crashfrog, posted 08-11-2007 1:37 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by crashfrog, posted 08-11-2007 3:53 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3986
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.1


Message 100 of 270 (415722)
08-11-2007 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by crashfrog
08-11-2007 3:53 PM


Re: to the smartest kid in his room
That's fine then. Run along now.

Real things always push back.
-William James
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by crashfrog, posted 08-11-2007 3:53 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
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