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Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Why are all Christians atheists? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Running out of room / time on the "Don't fear the atheist thread" so I figured I'd split off some of the debate to a new topic.
All Fundamental Christians are Atheists in regards to Zeus, Apollo, Thor, Vishnu, Coyote, the Hero Twins, and many many more Gods. What gives? Surely, the people who were worshipping these Gods believed in them as much if not more than the typical Fundamentalist believes in their God. And, just as likely, they looked down upon the previous Gods. "Oh, yeah, people used to worship Iknock, but that was before we realized that Zeus is the one true God." So, what's the deal, Fundies? I've heard over and over how you can discard a mountain of evidence in favor or your particular flavor of magic, but how can you also discard a mountain of magic in favor of magic. What reason do you have to believe that people with as much, if not more, spiritual evidence in the existence of their Gods are some how wrong? Edited by Nuggin, : No reason given.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Two presuppositions which I disagree with. All belief in god(s) is magic. God is a construct of the human mind only and is not our Creator. I'm not saying that the belief in God is magic. The belief is an act of will. I am saying that the belief in God is a belief in magic. In other words belief does not equal magic. God does equal magic. As for the other sentence... Okay, God is not a construct of the Human mind, and is in fact our Creator. Which God? Zeus? Coyote? You didn't specify
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
So you think that you could get a fundamentalist to acknowledge that there is some truth to the idea that Thor is a powerful diety and that their God is not the only "one true God"?
Good luck!
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
No, you misunderstand.
I'm not saying mixing up "no" and "what does he look like". What I'm asking it why they are willing to answer NO to questions like: "Is Zeus real?""Is Thor real?" "Is Coyote real?" But then are willing to answer yes to: "Is real?"
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Huh?
Are you honestly trying to equate the scientific process of hypothesis and testing with magic? Is it that you fundamentaly misunderstand science or is it that you fundamentally misunderstand magic? OR both?
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Sorry Jar, but that is a cop out.
Fundamentalists hold that someone who worships Zeus is not simply worshiping a misunderstand interpreattion of their own God, but is in fact worshiping a false God. It's either/or, not both. Either God exists, or Thor exists. You can not claim Thor = God, because, like I said in the original post, I'm not asking for everyone's personal opinion on the subject, I'm challenging Fundies to explain their ongoing hypocracy
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
So if I understand you correctly, you are saying --
People who believe in Zeus are wrong because they think that God's name is actually Zeus, but it's not, it's God. But, the only evidence you have for this is that you believe that "God's" name is "God" and not "Zeus", when there is just as much evidence that the opposite is true. That what you believe to be "God" is actually Zeus, and you are simply mistaken in your belief. May Zeus forgive you.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
The argument fails because they are not rejecting other Gods for rational reasons, but rather religious ones. But they are choosing which religious faith to follow. They are choosing (let's go out on a limb and say "rationally") to believe that their particular faith holds more merit than any other given faith. It just so happens that believing their particular faith precludes belief in other faiths. However, there is no more evidence for belief in their faith than there is for belief in any other faith. As such, they are discarding all Gods save one out of hand based on the same criteria they are using to prop up the one they choose.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
I don't think that Fundamentalist Christians are athiests with respect to those other gods. Many of the ones I know believe that there is a supernatural aspect to those religions caused by the Enemy and his minions. How is that not atheism in regards to Thor? Fundy - "I don't believe that Thor is real, I believe that people who believe in Thor are just being tricked by the Devil". That's atheistic in regards to Thor. (or Zeus, or Coyote, etc.) Just because Fundamentalists are polytheistic in regards to God and Satan, doesn't mean that they are not atheistic in regards to every other God in the Universe
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
How are these any different:
"If the wind turns the tide, Oden wants me to live."-and- "If two men love each other, they will both burn in Hell." Both are either completely arbitrary or absolutely true. You can't say that there is any more evidence for one than the other. ------ second point ------ If Force X and Source C have a correspondence, and Source C goes back to taking their lithium and Force X vanishes, does that mean that lithium can kill God? Edited by Nuggin, : No reason given.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Ahh, but they don't acknowledge "any" God. In fact, they have a historically gone around killing those who to acknowledge any God other than theirs.
The question is not "do Christians acknowledge that there is divine power by any name?", the question is "why do Christians insist that given then exact same data, their conclusion is absolutely right and all other conclusions deserve death."
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Jar,
Just because you see invisible text doesn't mean it's there. You keep jumping down my throat for the use of the word "all" but if you turn off your magic glasses, you'll notice that I never typed that word.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
You still haven't proved belief in God is superstition. su·per·sti·tion [soo-per-stish-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation -noun 1. a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge, in or of the ominous significance of a particular thing, circumstance, occurrence, proceeding, or the like. 2. a system or collection of such beliefs. 3. a custom or act based on such a belief. 4. irrational fear of what is unknown or mysterious, esp. in connection with religion. 5. any blindly accepted belief or notion. I would argue that def. 1 fits the criteria, though I can already hear the counter arguement of "but I do have knowledge". So lets look at def 2. CheckDef 3? Check Def 4? Check - If you covet your neighbor's wife, you can expect to spend eternity in damnation Def 5? Double check. So, I'd say that's 5 for 5, you might say 4.5 of 5. Either way, religion is superstition
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Jar,
What's the point of the forums? Yes, if some wrote this -"Some people believe some things but some other people might disagree with some of the things that some people believe" There would be consensus. I'm sure some people can agree with some of that
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Finish reading my entire post. Refuting the 1 point that I predict you refuting, doesn't exactly work in your favor
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