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Author Topic:   Why are all Christians atheists?
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4087 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 99 of 161 (395525)
04-16-2007 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Nuggin
04-12-2007 5:29 PM


What reason do you have to believe that people with as much, if not more, spiritual evidence in the existence of their Gods are some how wrong?
In the context of your OP, this is one of the most answered questions in history. There are hundreds of pages of writings addressing the very gods you mention.
Specifically Zeus/Jupiter and Apollo/Mars are thoroughly addressed in the writings of the early apologists. While modern skeptics won't agree with what the apologists say in defense of Christianity, the arguments against faith in Jupiter and the rest of the Roman gods are rather powerful.
The most powerful one, in my opinion, is that the Greek and Roman gods behaved in ways that would get them prosecuted and punished by the Greek and Roman states. Jupiter, for example, ate his own children. Far from being gods, they are rather criminals.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Nuggin, posted 04-12-2007 5:29 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Nuggin, posted 04-16-2007 10:00 PM truthlover has not replied
 Message 103 by nator, posted 04-17-2007 8:07 AM truthlover has replied

  
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4087 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 110 of 161 (395783)
04-17-2007 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by nator
04-17-2007 8:07 AM


Saturn (not Jupiter) ate his own children
I almost went and looked up the Saturn/Jupiter thing, but decided to trust my memory at the last minute. Nowadays, that's never a good idea.
, yes, but Yaweh drowned nearly all life on earth.
I really don't see the difference.
I do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by nator, posted 04-17-2007 8:07 AM nator has replied

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 Message 111 by nator, posted 04-17-2007 10:03 PM truthlover has replied

  
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4087 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 118 of 161 (395979)
04-18-2007 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by nator
04-17-2007 10:03 PM


Are you planning to explain the difference between a god who kills his (few) children by eating them and a god who kills his (millions of) children and all animal and plant life by drowing all of them?
If you'd like. You didn't ask, so I didn't figure it was necessary. A God who creates and rules the world is entitled to decree the death penalty for sufficient violation of his will.
A god whose passions and jealousies cause him to eat his physically generated children is a monster. There is no resemblance between those two beings.
Shoot, I forgot the second question...added by edit:
And again, where is it written that gods are required to be benevolent to be considered legitimate?
That's not written anywhere, but when a large, wide issue like which God is real is being debated, this is something that gets discussed. In context of the whole debate, it's a significant issue.
Edited by truthlover, : forgot to answer something

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 Message 111 by nator, posted 04-17-2007 10:03 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by nator, posted 04-18-2007 6:36 PM truthlover has replied

  
truthlover
Member (Idle past 4087 days)
Posts: 1548
From: Selmer, TN
Joined: 02-12-2003


Message 145 of 161 (397452)
04-26-2007 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by nator
04-18-2007 6:36 PM


I've been on a trip, nator, that was a lot of work. I was way too exhausted to be answering complicated theological questions.
Now I'm back, so...
My points are:
1) Drowning innocent animals and children would get your God prosecuted and punished today, so I fail to see why this point is in your favor.
In my favor is irrelevant. The original issue was why Greek, Roman, & Norse gods (among others) were rejected. I gave a reason. I think it's a good one. You want to apply it to the God of Israel in the Old Covenant. That's fine, you can, but it's irrelevant.
2) You seem to imply that gods shouldn't be considered gods if they aren't "good" or benevolent, or something. I don't understand at all why you would think that.
No doubt. Personally, I think you have a problem with authority. This does not negate your complaint about genocide in OT Israel, but it does address why you don't understand what I'm saying.
Yahweh sending a flood to "drown innocent animals and children" would not get him prosecuted today, because he's the authority. All governments (almost) put some people to death. No governments are prosecuted for doing so. A government carrying out an act of war may be morally wrong, but if they win, no one will be able to prosecute the government.
The Romans had stories about their gods' lives on earth. Then they believed those men were exalted to be gods. The argument was that it was unreasonable to believe such men would be exalted, because their behavior was criminal. Their behavior, according to the myths, continued to be criminal after they were gods.
Perhaps there is some evil deity ruling the universe or many evil deities roaming the universe. To discover some evidence of a malevolent, powerful being and call such a being a god could happen, but the stories of the Romans and Greeks don't add up to something believable, nor, if they were believable, would these be gods you would want to serve.
The OT god is a jealous, venegeful, bloodthirsty god that would be tried for war crimes for his many genocides. Does this mean that, to you, the OT Yahweh is "far from being a god, but is rather a criminal."?
This isn't relevant to this thread. From past experience, I know you think that's dodging the question, so let me add that one, I don't think genocide is a good thing, and two, that I don't believe that genocide occurred in the Israelite conquering of Canaan. However, if that needs to be discussed further, it really should be in a different thread.
Edited by truthlover, : Added a bit to try to make my post clearer; it was really hard to get across what I wanted to say.

This message is a reply to:
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