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Author Topic:   Why are all Christians atheists?
anastasia
Member (Idle past 4503 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 76 of 161 (395072)
04-14-2007 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by mike the wiz
04-14-2007 6:11 PM


Re: Whats The Deal?
mike the wiz,

As a Christian, I am fine with calling religion superstition.

Many times the etymology of a word is more useful than the common definitions, which are attached more to the practical applications of the word.

Superstition has come to mean something akin to an absurdity. What is really means is useless. It is like the word 'heretic'. A heretic is someone different in every case dependng upon the view of the finger-pointer.

Superstition literally means to stand outside, or over, or beyond. What a person is 'outside' of, is entirely subjective.

We can have Christians calling pagans superstitious, atheists calling Christians such, and even Catholics calling other Catholics such when the go 'outside' of orthodoxy, or when they begin to use the devices of the Catholic church in an empty manner.

A superstition however, is NOT a religion. It is not a religious belief. It is a mindset that makes something into an empty gesture. The problem is that from different vantage points, what is 'empty' is not the same for everyone. I can call a Wiccan ceremony empty, they can call my Eucharist empty, but its not the religion that is 'superstitious' in itself, as superstition is only the word used by those apart from this view who attempt to describe its lack of validity.

In other words, nothing is a superstition except by contrast to another view. It's not a 'slur' upon religion.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by mike the wiz, posted 04-14-2007 6:11 PM mike the wiz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by mike the wiz, posted 04-15-2007 10:03 AM anastasia has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18332
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 77 of 161 (395073)
04-14-2007 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Nuggin
04-14-2007 8:04 PM


Re: Individuals
Nuggin writes:

But prayer has nothing to do with the sentence.

My, you do have a short memory, don't you?

In Message 57, Phat said:

quote:
We could well ask why all atheists are theists

to which you replied, in Message 59:

quote:
This would be a great question, if Atheists were constantly praying.

You brought up prayer, not me. I just pointed out that you don't seem to have much of an understanding of prayer.

Please, at least read your own posts if you won't read mine. :)


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Nuggin, posted 04-14-2007 8:04 PM Nuggin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Nuggin, posted 04-14-2007 8:57 PM ringo has responded

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1043 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 78 of 161 (395084)
04-14-2007 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by ringo
04-14-2007 8:17 PM


Re: Individuals
OMG! What is with you?

What are you trying to argue in the first place? No materr what I write, all you do is copy and paste some tiny piece of text, give some smart ass remark and put a smiley face.

Fine, you win, you're the smartest player in the game! Congratulations! Hurray!

I look forward to your next post -

"Tiny piece of text" - "Actually it's not pieces of text, its sentence fragments, something which you clearly don't have a good grasp of." :)

MOVE ON


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by ringo, posted 04-14-2007 8:17 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by ringo, posted 04-15-2007 12:01 AM Nuggin has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18332
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 79 of 161 (395108)
04-15-2007 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Nuggin
04-14-2007 8:57 PM


Re: Individuals
Nuggin writes:

What are you trying to argue in the first place?

I made a small comment about the nature of prayer in response to your reference. You proceded to deny that you ever mentioned prayer and I posted the proof that you did.

No need to throw a hissy-fit just because you got caught in a mistake. I made a mistake myself the other day and I'm still alive.

By all means, move on. If you have something to salvage this thread, by all means present it.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Nuggin, posted 04-14-2007 8:57 PM Nuggin has not yet responded

  
RickJB
Member (Idle past 3541 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 80 of 161 (395126)
04-15-2007 4:29 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by mike the wiz
04-14-2007 6:11 PM


Re: Whats The Deal?
mtw writes:

If any belief was a superstition, then logically, superstition would have no definition, as we would have one term, which would be belief.

Who said any belief is superstition? This a strawman of your own creation! A dictionary will tell you superstition is a belief without empircal basis which gives rise to a false conception of causation.

mtw writes:

Because consequentially, superstitious belief, would then be nothing more than a grammatical tautology. Google it.

Maybe you should google "strawman" instead?

mtw writes:

Belief in God, of itself, doesn't qualify as a superstition under the common definition.

Yes it does. To believe in God is to believe in the existence (and influence) of something for which we have no empirical evidence.

Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by mike the wiz, posted 04-14-2007 6:11 PM mike the wiz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by mike the wiz, posted 04-15-2007 9:50 AM RickJB has responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 81 of 161 (395130)
04-15-2007 6:35 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by anastasia
04-14-2007 7:29 PM


quote:
Could be, but many 'fundies' did go thru a point of seriously considering fundamentalism with an open mind!

Again, I don't think so.

I think many if not most fundamentalists who were not raised that way get into fundamentalism out of emotional need.

I mean, there's a reason that Mormon missionaries (and other cult/religious missionaries) target young, emotionally vulnerable college students, away from home and mostly on their own for the first time.

This is not due to the academic environment encouraging "open-minded consideration" in the students, but because college can be very lonely.

Easy pickings.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by anastasia, posted 04-14-2007 7:29 PM anastasia has not yet responded

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4689
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 82 of 161 (395134)
04-15-2007 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by RickJB
04-15-2007 4:29 AM


Re: Whats The Deal?
Maybe you should google "strawman" instead?

Now hang on a minute, did you or did you not mention damnation? So is it belief in God that's superstitious, or belief in common Christian interpretations?

To believe in God is to believe in the existence (and influence) of something for which we have no empirical evidence.

There is no empirical evidence he does not exist, so to believe he doesn't, would be superstitious, according to that illogic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by RickJB, posted 04-15-2007 4:29 AM RickJB has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Nuggin, posted 04-15-2007 12:27 PM mike the wiz has responded
 Message 88 by RickJB, posted 04-15-2007 12:51 PM mike the wiz has responded

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4689
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 83 of 161 (395135)
04-15-2007 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by anastasia
04-14-2007 8:16 PM


Re: Whats The Deal?
Hi Ana

Many times the etymology of a word is more useful than the common definitions, which are attached more to the practical applications of the word.

Using the common definition stops people from puling their own definition out of their butts, like we see Nuggin and co doing right now.:)

They try and force something to work - like trying to fit a brick through a straw.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by anastasia, posted 04-14-2007 8:16 PM anastasia has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Nuggin, posted 04-15-2007 12:31 PM mike the wiz has responded

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1043 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 84 of 161 (395161)
04-15-2007 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by mike the wiz
04-15-2007 9:50 AM


Re: Whats The Deal?
There is no empirical evidence he does not exist, so to believe he doesn't, would be superstitious, according to that illogic.

Please, you're flailing now.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by mike the wiz, posted 04-15-2007 9:50 AM mike the wiz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by mike the wiz, posted 04-15-2007 12:41 PM Nuggin has not yet responded

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1043 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 85 of 161 (395163)
04-15-2007 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by mike the wiz
04-15-2007 10:03 AM


Re: Whats The Deal?
puling their own definition out of their butts, like we see Nuggin and co doing right now.

Excuse me? www.dictionary.com

It may not be the biggest website in the world, but it certainly doesn't fit "in my butt".

It's this kind of crazy ass bullcrap coming from you gdamn fundies that results in every single one of these thread crashing and burning into these typical garbage arguements.

Mike - "I don't accept any definition of any word other than my own. Prove me wrong."

I'm amazed you learned to use a keyboard at all.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by mike the wiz, posted 04-15-2007 10:03 AM mike the wiz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by ringo, posted 04-15-2007 12:39 PM Nuggin has not yet responded
 Message 89 by mike the wiz, posted 04-15-2007 12:56 PM Nuggin has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18332
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 86 of 161 (395166)
04-15-2007 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Nuggin
04-15-2007 12:31 PM


Re: Whats The Deal?
Nuggin writes:

It's this kind of crazy ass bullcrap coming from you gdamn fundies....

Now who's flailing?

FYI, there are no fundies on this thread.

Substance, please.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Nuggin, posted 04-15-2007 12:31 PM Nuggin has not yet responded

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4689
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 87 of 161 (395168)
04-15-2007 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Nuggin
04-15-2007 12:27 PM


Re: Whats The Deal?
It's called reductio ad absurdum.

Example;

Guy says X is true.

Mike says that if X is true then F - which is clearly false therefore X is false.

Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Nuggin, posted 04-15-2007 12:27 PM Nuggin has not yet responded

  
RickJB
Member (Idle past 3541 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 88 of 161 (395172)
04-15-2007 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by mike the wiz
04-15-2007 9:50 AM


Re: Whats The Deal?
mtw writes:

Now hang on a minute, did you or did you not mention damnation?

This is a superstitious belief that is common to many christians even if you reject it yourself. Are you denying this?

mtw writes:

There is no empirical evidence he does not exist, so to believe he doesn't, would be superstitious, according to that illogic.

This is an old canard. If there is no emprical evidence of God then one must logically proceed from that point. Not to do so is illogical and therefore superstitious.

Do you concern yourself with the fact that there is no proof that space unicorns don't exist?

Remember it is you who is proposing an influential agent for whom no evidence is either forthcoming or required. In this sense God is irrelevent whether he exists or not.

For example, one might believe that black cats bring bad luck. The fact that back cats exist still doesn't mean that they produce bad luck!

Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by mike the wiz, posted 04-15-2007 9:50 AM mike the wiz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by mike the wiz, posted 04-15-2007 4:08 PM RickJB has responded

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4689
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 89 of 161 (395175)
04-15-2007 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Nuggin
04-15-2007 12:31 PM


Re: Whats The Deal?
It's this kind of crazy ass bullcrap coming from you gdamn fundies that results in every single one of these thread crashing and burning into these typical garbage arguements......I'm amazed you learned to use a keyboard at all

Nug, calm down, it's only a discussion.

As Ringo said, there aren't any fundies taking part in the thread. That means I am not one.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Nuggin, posted 04-15-2007 12:31 PM Nuggin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Nuggin, posted 04-15-2007 12:59 PM mike the wiz has responded

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 1043 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 90 of 161 (395176)
04-15-2007 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by mike the wiz
04-15-2007 12:56 PM


Re: Whats The Deal?
To use your own logic -

You have provided no evidence that you are not a fundy, therefore, by my personal definition, you are one.

Debate that, oh, and out of hand, I won't accept any definitions for "fundy" "definition" or any verbs other than the one's I personally have written down on a piece of paper.

Let's see you deal with your own bullshit for a change.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by mike the wiz, posted 04-15-2007 12:56 PM mike the wiz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by mike the wiz, posted 04-15-2007 1:34 PM Nuggin has responded

  
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