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Author Topic:   Should those of religious faith be allowed to run this country?
dsv
Member (Idle past 4750 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 44 of 308 (214487)
06-05-2005 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
06-05-2005 7:26 AM


Re: The opposite of fatalism
Greetings Faith,
You've clearly shown -- and correctly -- that having an authoritarian Muslim government in power in the United States would be very bad (I might add that this is obviously not the type of gov. the OP had in mind). Having ANY faith-based government simply does not work in a society such as ours -- I still hold us to be a modern and sophisticated country with a wide range of philosophies and belief systems, which is great IMO.
Don't you see that this is exactly why we can not have an authoritative Christian government? It goes both ways. The separation is in place to protect YOU. It's blatantly obvious. The problem is just that the Christian right is grossly short-sighted and want to impose their views on the masses at whatever cost necessary.
If everyone would just take a step back and look at the other side the coin and realize that this world and more importantly this country consists of a smorgasbord of viewpoints, you would see that the need for a government independent of faith is a no-brainer.

"Look, the Bible is VERY clear. [...] It warns repeatedly against believing what the 'world' says, what the 'wise' of the world, the philosophers or thinkers of the world say." -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 06-05-2005 7:26 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Faith, posted 06-05-2005 5:24 PM dsv has replied

dsv
Member (Idle past 4750 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 47 of 308 (214578)
06-05-2005 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Faith
06-05-2005 5:24 PM


Re: Big topic, religion and government
Well, I haven't proposed an authoritative Christian government, although I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the term.
I meant a Christian regime. So you propose a government that doesn't attempt to legislate morality, push prayer in schools, make decisions based on faith, etc.?
What "separation" means to you and what it meant to the founders may be entirely different things.
I don't know about that -- it's the same concept, the times have just chanced, everything is more internationalized, we are more connected to different people, populations are more aware and knowledgeable regarding the different cultures around the world.
I feel that the concept still holds true though.
The meaning of the separation of church from state isn't at all obvious...
Sure it is. Think basic... You don't want Muslims imposing moral superiority and values that you don't agree with on you; I don't want Christians imposing moral superiority and values that I don't agree with on me. What's the difference? Remember, the world doesn't agree on which God is THE God.
The Christian right is not a monolith but represents a variety of opinions
Opinions are fine. I encourage opinion. Since (at least for now) our government isn't wholly Christian-based, people still have the right to express themselves openly -- gay, straight, pro-life, pro-choice, porn, church, muslim, jewish, etc.
Um, I'm sure you don't mean "everyone" ahould *step back,* you mean Christian fundies should realize they're wrong, period.
No, I mean everyone. I suppose most importantly would be fundamentalists of any religion, but everyone can benefit from having an all-encompassing worldview. Surely it would be nice if Al-Qaeda leaders took a step back and considered what would be good for the planet apart from the skewed view of their religion.
No one is "wrong" by realizing their efforts might be better served through more peaceful means. The Christian fundies aren't "wrong" either. They're entitled to believe whatever they choose -- that doesn't mean our government should be run as such.
How we got to BE a smorgasbord of viewpoints could be an interesting investigation in itself, and whether it is a good thing for a cohesive and healthy nation is another question to think about
Good idea, let's just make this officially United States of Christian American (USCA) and the official national religion will be Christianity. Anyone who isn't a Christian will immediately be deported. All television (even private cable & satellite networks) censored for morality.
I'm not sure all or any particular one of these topics belongs in this thread.
The topic is: Should those of religious faith be allowed to run this country?
After our discussion, my answer is "NO!" and/or "AHHH!!!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Faith, posted 06-05-2005 5:24 PM Faith has not replied

dsv
Member (Idle past 4750 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 51 of 308 (214635)
06-06-2005 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Faith
06-05-2005 11:16 PM


Re: Big topic, religion and government
Ah yes, the politically correct multiculturalist delusion of our time, exactly the attitude that will usher in what I'm predicting. Rather reminiscent of the serpent's assurance to Eve: "If you eat of it you will not surely die."
Exactly why having fundie Christians shaping policy is a bad idea.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Faith, posted 06-05-2005 11:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 06-06-2005 2:08 PM dsv has not replied

dsv
Member (Idle past 4750 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 214 of 308 (215334)
06-08-2005 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Faith
06-08-2005 12:21 PM


Re: Academic bill of rights my A**
The idea is simple: KEEP YOUR POLITICS AND RELIGIOUS OPINIONS OUT OF THE CLASSROOM, whatever they are.
Errr... I'm confused. This statement is contradictory to all your ID and alternative-TOE education positions.
Obviously freedom of speech is a threat to the leftists who are up in arms over this proposal to protect that freedom in the classroom. Since when is freedom of speech equivalent to a person in authority's having the power to ridicule the views of a student and grade him on his opinions instead of his knowledge of the course material? This is what is happening now.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but my professors were there to share with me their knowledge, period. That includes all aspects. I disagree with some professors just as I disagree with some laymen.
You're not paying premium prices to go to premium schools to have the professor read the approved course material to the class aloud.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Faith, posted 06-08-2005 12:21 PM Faith has not replied

dsv
Member (Idle past 4750 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 256 of 308 (215402)
06-08-2005 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by Faith
06-08-2005 2:50 PM


Re: How things change.
...the fact is there ISN'T any conservative bias in universities at the moment.
What about at Virginia Military Institute? I know two people that went there, I wonder if their professor's opinions were biased.
EDIT: Also,
Abilene Christian University
Texas Christian University
LCU: Lubbock Christian University
Oklahoma Christian University | The World Awaits Your Story
http://www.mcu.edu/
http://www.hcu.edu/
etc. etc. etc.
What would happen if I go to these schools and spew out my "leftist nonsense" and "science jargon" huh?
This message has been edited by dsv, Wednesday, June 08, 2005 04:46 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Faith, posted 06-08-2005 2:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by EZscience, posted 06-08-2005 10:24 PM dsv has not replied
 Message 273 by Faith, posted 06-08-2005 10:35 PM dsv has replied

dsv
Member (Idle past 4750 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 275 of 308 (215517)
06-08-2005 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Faith
06-08-2005 10:35 PM


Re: How things change.
I agree that there are biases from both sides. We're all human, after all.
However, if I'm going to Atlantic Christian University it's probable that I will experience some creationist bias.
At Massachusetts Institute of Technology, should I be surprised to received scientific bias?
My point is, most universities (non-religious based) side on factual evidence, so why are we surprised to find biased professors? If I tell a professor that I don't agree with the research and it's all false -- God did it -- isn't he allowed to say "you're crazy" in nicer terms?
I suppose that's just my opinion. I'm at university specifically for the professor's thoughts, teachings, and insights. That's what you're paying for, not to have curriculum read to you.
This message has been edited by dsv, Wednesday, June 08, 2005 10:43 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Faith, posted 06-08-2005 10:35 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
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