Forgot to address your other points. I'll do that now:
You wrote: "I don't understand your point. The shah was a known evil that needed to be dealt with -- the fundamentalists were the only ones in any position to be effective in this regard." Read Amir Taheri, the famed Iranian journalist on this. It was through him that I learned about a coalition that brought the Shah down, rather than the Islamists alone.
"At any rate, the majority of Iranians, who are still Muslims, support the more democratically minded reformers. That would seem to dispute your point."
First, of ocurse some pockets of Muslims are more democratically minded than others. It is instructive, though, that Iranians are not arabs, and that iranians ahve experienced first hand the horror of Islamism. Thus they see what others have not.
Second, I do not argue that the majority of Muslims would reject democracy. I assuredly took took note of the Iraqi election. Rather, I am saying that North American Muslims, even those who are democrats, have demonstrated a greater sympathy for Islamists than liberal democracy, by allowing Wahabbis to takeover their organizations. That, frankly, is ominous.
You wrote: "The conservatives who are in charge of Iran are not Wahhabis. In fact, they are very critical of the Wahhabis, considering them to be a medievel throwback (kind of funny, eh?). The conservatives in Iran are slightly more tolerant of religious dissent and Iranian women have more rights in Iran than in, say, Wahabbi dominated Saudi Arabia."
True, they are not (Sunni) wahabbis. They are, instead, Shiite equivalents. Both are Islamist. Both quote the war verses. Both see democracy as evil. Both believe in sharia Law, adn that all the world should be ruled by it under an Islamic caliphate.
"Jerry Fallwell made some bizarre comments linking homosexuals, feminists, and, I believe, the ACLU with the 9/11 attacks. This was publically caught, too. I don't recall that he ever made a definite apology for this, and I believe that he still has his job."
Jerry Falwaell was in charge of his own creation, and it and he took a major hit as his credibility was destroyed. But you say something significant: he "made some bizarre comemnts." Exactly, they were seen as bizarre. This imam's comments were not at all seen as bizarre by the congregants - because he was merely repeating what they have heard since they were children, and was is right there in the Koran.
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I wote: If we are to defend ourselves, we must realize that the tolerance and "liberal" part of democracy is not, to paraphrase someone else, a suicide pact.
You responded: "Nor is posing a false dilemma a sign of logical thinking."
True, but this is not a false dilemma. 9/11 was real. That the Islamists had Afghanistan, and still have Iran and Sudan - where they have committed a gemocide against Christians and now moderate Black Muslims - is real. That the Islamists had their finger on the Pakastan nuclear trigger, un til Khan was fired after US pressure following 9/11 - is real. That they are close to getting more nuclear weapons is real. That they despise the US and liberal democracy is real. That they have taken over American Islamic organizations is real. And so on.
The war in Iraq has brought about significant losses for them. Democracy has been introduced into the heart of their world. Arab intellectuals are discussing democracy even in repressive countries like Egypt and Syria. we don't know yet the ultimate outcomes. we do know that Islamism was gaining steam fast, was probably going to conquer most of the Arab world and much of the islamic world, and then was going to come after us in an annihilist nuclear war. it was the Nazis of the early 30's. This time a western leader, Bush, recognized what was happening and intervened sooner. (Churchill warned us all about the Nazis, but was dismissed with the same kind of arguments the left has used to dismiss Bush).
ironically, it appears we need a democratic revolution in the ME in order to assure that NA Muslims will push out the non democratic forces within their communities and reaffirm their commitment to our societies as they are.
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