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Author | Topic: ¿Can you believe in an old earth and a global flood? | |||||||||||||||||||||
teen4christ Member (Idle past 5825 days) Posts: 238 Joined: |
quote:Couldn't you be anymore graphic?
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3670 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
Couldn't you be anymore graphic? Who? CatholicScientist? Yes, much much more graphic...
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Two posters in this thread so far have alleged that the young earth is Biblically literal. It isn't. As ICANT has correctly stated, Genesis 1 does not indicate how old the universe and the earth is.
Genesis 1 simply states that when they were created God did it. The determination of the 24 hour day was not established until day four when the sun and moon were created according to the literacy of the record. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: That's not a strict literal reading at all. The day/night cycle is established right at the start - Genesis 1:3-5. There are evenings and mornings before the 4th day (e.g. Genesis 1:5). There's no indication of any change to the timing of that cycle from that point on. Saying that there was some large unspecified amount of time before Genesis 1:3 is not literal either. It's not in the text. A strict literal reading is not going to assume that without a good reason.
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The Matt Member (Idle past 5568 days) Posts: 99 From: U.K. Joined: |
quote:Part of the reason for this is that a global flood is the way in which many YECs choose to dismiss geological evidence for the age of the earth. There's an awful lot of sedimentary rock in the world to squeeze into a 6000 year history, and saying "most of it must be from the flood" provides a mechanism for it to get there. It can then be argued from there that the order in which species occur in the rocks are due to hydraulic sorting of their remains rather than the order in which they lived. Neither of these survive close scrutiny. Take away the flood, and it's back to the drawing board.
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obvious Child Member (Idle past 4142 days) Posts: 661 Joined: |
I take it that most of these people have no understanding of fluid mechanics?
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Australia 501 Junior Member (Idle past 4164 days) Posts: 4 Joined: |
Hello, I believe in an old earth, but not in a global flood, I will now explain why, briefly. (Old Earth, Local Flood)
Creation, I believe took six eons of time, as the English word "days" comes from the Hebrew word "yom" which means "eon of time" or "days". The English translators of the Bible used the word "days" instead of "eon of time" to possibly "fit in" with their religious belief system, to maybe, put a stumbling block before the people. Deliberate, maybe, maybe not, its not up to me to judge, the Almighty Yahweh creator of heaven an earth will do that. The earth has a numerous number of "witness marks" on it to show how old it is, these cannot be ignored or explained away. One example is the Dinosaur, they where created early during the sixth eon of time when all the living creatures were created, each according to its kind. But as we know they (the Dinosaur) also died out, maybe around the middle of the sixth eon of time. A lot of the creatures that we see today may have been created later on during the sixth eon of time. When we read Gen 1: 26 we can see that there are four plural words used to describe the making and image of the first people. "Us" "Our" "Our" and "them". This I believe was the creation of the wonderful indigenous people of all the lands of the earth, These people all look different to each other, thus the multiple images. They were blessed by the almighty to "Bear fruit and increase .... etc. These people have lived the same way for tens or hundreds of thousands of years, they eat virtually anything and looked after the earth, only taking what they needed to survive, a hunting gathering people. These people did not die in the flood, (except the Nods, refer to Cain below) as the flood was only in the Mesopatamia region, between the ring of mountains, in Iran, Turkey, Syria, Israel, Midian and Arabia. Gen 7: 20 "The waters became mighty 15 cubits upward, and the mountains were covered". 15 cubits is about 8 to 10 metres high, maybe the flood went two or three times higher than that. That would have covered all the mountains in that region, as that region is almost dead flat. When the flood was high enough and at the appointed time the flood then breached its lowest spot, the sandy hills that were across where the Straits of Hormaz are today, This breach then flowed into the Persian Gulf. The Ark landed at the most northern point of the flood, The mountains of Ararat. Gen 8: 4. Exactly were they have found it today. The creatures that were on the Ark, were the creatures of that Mesopotamia area. The Ark did not have 4,000,000 different species of creatures on board multiplied by 2 or 7 from the whole world. Also "all the earth" does not always mean "the whole earth" as in "the whole globe". "all the earth" sometimes means "all the earth of that region" it depends on the context and your understanding of what you are reading, there are many ways of looking at anything, sometimes it pays to look outside the square. When Noah looked outside the Arks window and looked towards the horizon and only saw water as far as his eyes could see, then as far as he was concerned, "all the earth" was covered and everything on "all the earth" died. Noah didn't have the luxury of looking at a television to receive a weather report. As far as he was concerned there was "No Dry Land Anywhere". We also know these days, that for every "Low Rain Depression, Cyclone or Hurricane System" there is a "High, Dry System" many kilometres away, one feeds off the other. One will not survive without the other. When we understand how the Almighty makes our weather work, you can see that a worldwide deluge is impossible, because as you can see every Low needs a High to feed it. Whereas the local flood of Noah's time did happen, as the Low Rain Depression could and would stay there for forty days and nights, I believe the Almighty Yahweh commanded the Highs to keep feeding this Massive Long Lasting Low. This is similar to the Monsoons over North East India and Bangladesh, this presently is the wettest place on earth. Adam was given a blessing "breath of life" Gen 2: 7. He also ate of "the tree of knowledge of good and evil" Gen 2:17, 3:6. The decendants of Adam, (except Noah and His Family) all perished in the flood because of their evil ways. Gen 7: 22 All in whose nostrils was the "breath of the spirit of life" all that was on dry land, died. "Breath of Life" and sin being the common denominators between Adam and those that perished. Cain took a wife in the land of Nod, and with "knowledge" from the tree (Refer back to Adam his Father) he built a city Gen 4: 16, 17 (These "Nods" were indigenous folk "hunter gatherers" and didn't need or know how to build a city until shown by Cain). There must have been many people there in the land of Nod to require a city!Cain and his brother Sheth took wife's from these people. It's interesting to note that the indigenous folk of all the lands of the earth, did not change their way of life until the descendants of Adam, who ate of the tree of knowledge, came to live with them. The tribes of Israel have now became nations, and have taken some of the lands of the first people, the indigenous folk, who have also been referred to as gentiles. The descendants of Ham and Yapeth have also been referred to as gentiles. Israel was supposed to be a shining light of truth to the world, to show everyone the righteous rulings of the Creator Yahweh, which would save the earth from the destruction of babel Rev 18, but they have failed dismally, instead they have become a lover of babel, and will pay the price. But all is not bad news, here is the good news The Messiah Yahshua called himself "The Everlasting Seed of Life" "The Living Waters of Life" "The Green Tree" "The Light of Life" among many other wonderful things. When we have all these things combined we have a land of milk and honey that brings life. Everything that grows on earth comes from seed. This seed needs water and light to grow to maturity. The Messiah Yahshua said that everything must die to be reborn again, Jonah, Yahshua and the earths seeds all have at least one thing in common. three days and three nights to renewed life. The Messiah came to show us this. One day everybody on the face of the earth will understood this teaching, and as the scripture says, " They will see Him returning from the clouds, to the earth". The people won't see any idols or images of the Messiah, for they will finally understand that He is "The Living Waters" that come from the cloud, to water the earths soil, they will also understand, that He is "The Everlasting Seed of Life" that sprouts forth and feeds the earth, turning it into a land of milk and honey, They will also know that He is "The Green Tree" that puts oxygen and water into the atmosphere, so that we may breath and live. They will also understand that "He is the Light" that shines to give warmth and life to all things. As you can see when we read and study the Word, and avoid religious dog and pony shows, everything just fits, the Truth of the Word is finally coming out, The Messiah Yahshua said in Rev 18: 4 "Come out of her my people ...." Also we haven't found any Kangaroos, Gorillas, Anacondas or Polar Bears etc... in the Middle East. Millions of our earths creatures have special needs, such as Koala Bears, they will only eat green eucalyptus leaves, one type only. All of these millions of species of creatures that lived outside the flood zone, they weren't on the Ark, as the flood did not affect them. Such creatures as Sheep, Cattle, Camels and many other creatures indigenous to the Mesopotamia area were on the Ark and feed by Noah and His Family. I understand that many might not agree with what I write, but I just point out the facts the way I see it. Others will see things I don't. Yours in Love and Peace to my EvC Forum Brothers and Sisters.
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Libmr2bs Member (Idle past 5753 days) Posts: 45 Joined: |
In Biblical times the world was "flat". So if there was a regional flood, then the whole world (as they saw it) must have been flooded.
You may have noticed that the mountains rose from the sea. This apparent observation would have occurred as one approached an island on the sea when the earth was flat. Similar verbage has been used by sailors in distress when recording their evperiences as they discovered land. One must understand the context before understanding the words. Edited by Libmr2bs, : No reason given.
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deerbreh Member (Idle past 2919 days) Posts: 882 Joined: |
quote: "Bottleneck" in population genetics refers to a reduction in genetic diversity. Losing species (bottlenecks within genera) will indeed be one way that happens, as well as losing individuals within a species. In any case, we would expect to see genetic bottlenecks as a result of a catastrophe such as a flood. Furthermore, if it were a global flood, we would be able to detect bottlenecks dated to that time in the DNA of all extant species and genera world wide.
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4255 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
yeah after the last ice age ended there was a huge flood, when all that ice melted
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
yeah after the last ice age ended there was a huge flood, when all that ice melted But the flood couldn't have been global. The entire planet has never been covered in water. There's always been some land somewhere.
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Architect-426 Member (Idle past 4649 days) Posts: 76 From: NC, USA Joined: |
THE FLOOD WAS GLOBAL, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. I AM ACTUALLY WRITING A BOOK ABOUT THE EVENT WITH VISUAL GEOGRAPHIC AND SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT FULLY SUPPORTS THIS FACT ALONG WITH THE SCRIPTURE. I HAVE SHARED MY THEORIES AND FINDINGS WITH FRIENDS THAT ARE ATHEISTS, BUDDHISTS, NEW AGE AND CHRISTIAN AND THEY ALL SEE IT CLEARLY. IN FACT THERE IS ALWAYS A RISE OF FEAR I CAN SEE IN EVERYONES FACE WHEN I PRESENT THIS, NO MATTER WHAT THEIR FAITH HAPPENS TO BE. FOR MYSELF AS I HAVE WORKED ON THIS MY REVERENTIAL FEAR FOR THE LORD GOD HAS GONE THRU THE ROOF. IT WAS NOT JUST A FLOOD, BUT THE FACE EARTH WAS DESTROYED, AND WE LIVE IN THE EVIDENCE AND ARE STILL EXPERIENCING THE EFFECTS OF THE FLOOD TODAY.
I HAVE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT TO SAY/SHARE ABOUT THE FLOOD, SO ALL I CAN DO NOW IS TO LET EVERYONE IN THE FORUM KNOW WHEN MY FIRST VOLUME IS COMPLETE. I AM ALSO WORKING ON A POWER POINT PRESENTATION SO I CAN SHARE THIS INFORMATION WITH GROUPS, CHURCHES, OR ANYONE INTERESTED. THE IRONY OF THE WHOLE THING IS THE FACT THAT I DID NO CHOOSE TO GO ABOUT TAKING ON THIS TASK. I HAVE A PERSONAL TESTIMONY I THINK PEOPLE WILL FIND VERY INTERESTING AS WELL THAT STARTED ME ON THIS JOURNEY. THE BOTTOM LINE FRIENDS IS GODS JUDGMENT IS VERY REAL, BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS HIS GRACE IS VERY AMAZING, AND I AM A LIVING TESTIMONY TO THAT FACT.
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Codegate Member (Idle past 845 days) Posts: 84 From: The Great White North Joined: |
Assuming that what you have to say about the flood is based on actual geologic and biological evidence I'd be very interested in reading what you've come up with.
Is there any chance of you giving a preview of your work before completion of the first volume? Also, posting in all caps has a negative connotation. If you want to be taken seriously, you need to make every effort to write(type) in clear, understandable and well formatted English. Your message is clear and understandable, but just due to the fact that it is in all caps will make readers take you far less seriously. Edited by Codegate, : No reason given.
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
Welcome to EvC A426.
We are all very interested indeed in your evidence for the global flood. I suggest that it is worth a thread all of it's own. Please go to "Proposed New Topics" and layout an outline of your thesis. I hope that people here can be very helpful to you. If you get them to dig into and criticize your ideas you will have a better result by the time you finish your book and presentations. I think if the ideas can handle criticism here they will be pretty strong. I would suggest that you not use all capital letters. Online that is seen as yelling; it is harder to read too.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
THE FLOOD WAS GLOBAL... Please do start a new thread and present your evidence. I too have some evidence, which I have generated from my own research, I would like to have your thoughts on. Edited by Coyote, : Spelling: there should be no "n" in research!
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