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Author | Topic: Where do the buddhists go? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NosyNed Member Posts: 9012 From: Canada Joined: |
Getting into heaven is good news? A steady diet of crow (black) for a couple of milenia is good news?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1731 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Other religions say the same thing. Or, those that don't know not that they know not. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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Dubious Drewski Member (Idle past 2857 days) Posts: 73 From: Alberta Joined: |
quote: I'm not sure I get the reference. I know the Bible, but not that well.
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9012 From: Canada Joined: |
I might be a very well behaved athiest. To suddenly find myself in heaven would require a diet of crow. Perhaps an extensive diet.
(I presume you've heard the expression "To eat crow" when one finds oneself proven very wrong.)
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jar Member (Idle past 165 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Ah, but there is where you have the great advantage. When presented with overwhelming evidence that some belief has been falsified, you have no problem saying, "That's interesting!"
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4758 From: u.k Joined: |
I've heard the expression, "If I'm wrong I'll eat my socks".
Perhaps you'll just have to eat your socks. Maybe you should wear rice paper socks from now on. ![]() On a serious note, I think if God does exist, he knows we're left to work out stuff for ourselves. What is one to do? Be skeptical, or be foolish and gullible and accept things as said? IMHO, Surely he'd advise the former if he's a smart God.
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Hal Jordan Inactive Member |
Would it be wise to then, based on this, reject the idea of any formal religion and just focus on being a good, moral person?
If that is what your heart and head are leading you to do...
Or do I run the risk of simultaneously burning in every single Hell from every single religion on earth?
Haha, believe it or not, I feared this for quite some time after leaving the faith; I don't think you have to worry about that happening.In the first place, not every religion has a burning hell. ABE: Changed subtitle This message has been edited by Hal Jordan, 02-07-2006 06:48 AM
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U can call me Cookie Member (Idle past 5279 days) Posts: 228 From: jo'burg, RSA Joined: |
Come to think of it, how many religions actually do have a hell.
I can only bring three to mind, and i'm not even sure about one of them! Does Judaism have a hell? Edit: subtitle changed This message has been edited by U can call me Cookie, 02-07-2006 07:26 AM So intimate that your hand upon my chest is my hand, so intimate that when I fall asleep it is your eyes that close. - Pablo Neruda
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AdminPD Inactive Administrator |
The "who are you responding to" subtitle is past it prime.
Please change it to reflect the contents of the post. Thank you, carry on ![]() |
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ramoss Member (Idle past 938 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
No, judaism does not have a hell. The closest that is comes to is more like the Catholic Purgatory, where some jews believe unrightous souls are purified for up to a year. The discussion about that the afterlife consists of is not really part of the Jewish dogma. The orthodox generallly believe in a very ill defined 'world to come', while some groups believe in reincarnation, and others don't beleive in an afterlife at all.
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U can call me Cookie Member (Idle past 5279 days) Posts: 228 From: jo'burg, RSA Joined: |
Ok, then.
Make that two religions, that I know of, that believe in the concept of Hell. So intimate that your hand upon my chest is my hand, so intimate that when I fall asleep it is your eyes that close. - Pablo Neruda
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DeclinetoState Member (Idle past 6764 days) Posts: 158 Joined: |
From GotQestions.org:
The question of faith alone or faith plus works is made difficult by some hard to reconcile Bible passages. Compare Romans 3:28, 5:1 and Galatians 3:24 with James 2:24. Some see a difference between Paul (salvation is by faith alone) and James (salvation is by faith plus works). In reality, Paul and James did not disagree at all. The only point of disagreement some people claim is over the relationship between faith and works. Paul dogmatically says that justification is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9) while James appears to be saying that justification is by faith plus works. This apparent problem is answered by examining what exactly James is talking about. James is refuting the belief that a person can have faith without producing any good works (James 2:17-18). James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but rather that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no good works in his life - then he likely does not have genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).
The above probably represents the views of most fundamentalist and many evangelical Christians. It seems to state that, if you are not a "true" Christian, you will not have the motivation to do good works. I think that many Christians, and certainly atheists, agnostics, Jews, Muslims, and practitioners of Eastern religions would strongly disagree with this. Since the Bible passages are cited but not quoted above, let me quote them below: "We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law." - Romans 3:28 (ASV) Comment: This talks about works of the law. What about works not specifically mentioned by the Old Testament Jewish law (presumably what Paul means here)? "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God." - Romans 5:1, 2 (KJV) Comment: The passage is silent with regard to works, and an argument from silence is a dangerous thing, IMHO. "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." - Galatians 3:24 (KJV) Comment: Like the citation from Romans, this talks about the law, but not about whether one can be saved by performing good works in general. "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." - James 2:24 (KJV) Comment: James is unambiguous here; yet I have heard some Christians insist that faith "may" show itself in good works (i.e., if the person has faith, it is possible--though not necessary--for them to show it by doing good works). Note also that James does not dismiss faith as a requirement for justification. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8, 9 (KJV) Paul's comment here seems to directly contradict James. Paul seems to be saying that faith leads to grace, which in turn leads to salvation. (One might debate the faith and grace order, but that's a topic for another discussion.) Nowhere does Paul mention works. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." - James 2:17, 18 (KJV) Comment: I need to see this in a modern translation. The language is a bit tricky here. "Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. "But someone will say, 'You have faith, and I have works.' Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works." - James 2:17, 18 (NKJV) Comment: A little easier to understand. It still seems that James is saying that without works, faith is dead. "But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, 'Abraham believed God, and it was *accounted to him for righteousness.' And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. "Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." - James 2:20-26 (NKJV) Comment: It seems that James flatly disagrees with Paul's assertion that faith--and faith alone--in Jesus is enough for salvation. Works are a necessary part of the equation. However, neither Paul nor James addresses (at least in the passages quoted) what may happen to non-believers in either Christianity or Judaism (i.e., practitioners of other religions--unless they are simply dismissed as "pagans").
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nwr Member Posts: 6490 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: |
I'm not convinced that there is any real contradiction there. I think it depends on what is meant by "faith". I take James as saying that faith is more than mere belief, and that in having faith you will by your nature do good works.
I don't take Paul to be denying the role of works. Presumably he means much the same by "faith". I see Paul as saying that you cannot buy your salvation by merely doing the works, while lacking the faith. Let's move back to the topic - other religions. Consider the story of the sheep and the goats, or the story of the widow's mite. I think it is the same thing. Works are fine. But they must come from the goodness of your heart, rather than from a desire to purchase salvation.
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BMG Member (Idle past 535 days) Posts: 357 From: Southwestern U.S. Joined: |
Hi Drewsky. Your topic seems interesting, and I just wanted to give my two cents worth regarding Buddhism. From what little I understand, the whole goal of Buddhism is to break the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth, called samsara. One breaks the cycle by achieving Nirvana which basically means "extinguished" or "put out like a candle". To achieve Nirvana one must follow the Eightfold Path- right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration.
"Thus the goal of basic Buddhist practice is not the achievement of a state of bliss in some heaven but the extinguishing of tanha (desire, thirst, craving)". I have no idea if what I have said has helped, confused or exacerbated the problem that you have. But, anywho, good luck on finding the answers to your questions.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 938 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Deleted
This message has been edited by ramoss, 03-18-2006 06:08 PM
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