Origins of the Judeo-Christian god and religion

It is clearly supported by implication. There are scriptures in both the OT and NT which allude to the true God such as I Thessalonians 1:9 where Paul admonishes, "turn from idols to the true god."Also Jeremiah 10:10: "But Jehovah is the true god; he is the living god, and an everlasting king; at his wrath the earth trembles; and the nations are not able to abide his indignation."

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

I got the idea of the special holiness of the recorded Seth line somewhere, I forget where, but there is nothing specific in the Bible about it so I guess I can't maintain it. Enoch is the only one who had a close relationship with God. Noah too of course.But Adam and Eve had many children, not just Cain and Abel and Seth. Those were mentioned because of their relevance to the theme of the Bible, and part of that is that the Seth line led to Noah. Seems wrong to attribute idolatry to that line but perhaps you are right, that some of them did succumb to it.

why is it so difficult to imagine a man inventing the personality of a god? we invent the personalities of all kinds of book characters. the god of the bible is little more in the written sense.

Sometimes the Bible doesn't *clearly* enough support things to convince unbelievers PD, but the evidence is thick to believers nevertheless.Yahweh's very commandment to have no other gods before Him is rightly heard to say all other gods are false. This idea that they were just other people's gods and valid for THEM has no support in the Bible at all. They were tolerated as Paul says in Romans 1, because of their ignorance, even during the time God was training up a peculiar people to understand the truth, but when knowledge has come they are no longer to be winked at.And believers would consider the following to be evidence of the falseness of other gods, but of course those of a certain turn of mind can just say it is namecalling rather than factual information to call idol gods devils as in: This message has been edited by Faith, 05-05-2006 10:14 PM

Yahweh is no ordinary god. He is utterly different from the kinds of gods people invent -- and people DO invent gods, all the others.

Yes, Buz, and Isaiah too is full of declarations: I am God and there is no other etc.

god seems to call on special people, in a world of lawlessness and chaos. even his perfect prophets are very rarely perfect -- david sinned with bathshebah, noah with wine, and moses murdered a man. this position is un-biblical. there is nothing in the text that says they had more children, although many invent other children (especially girls, which may be reasonable) to explain where cain's wife came from. a more logical position is that there were other, separately created people -- if you'd like, i will defend this in another thread. evidently, joshua thinks so. i would agree: the overwhelming message of the bible is that man is flawed, imperfect, and screws up on a regular basis without (and even sometimes in spite of) the guidance of god. i'm sure you agree to this point.

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one description of yahweh is also utterly different from another.the bits about him forming man out of clay are quite reminiscent of a babylonian creation story, involving marduk. instead of breath, marduk uses his blood. the physicality of god as seen in genesis (walking in the garden, wrestling with jacob, etc) and his somewhat immature personality (detroying the world, screwing with the construction at babel) are also very, very reminiscent of babylonian deities.people who maintain the idea that the bible is utterly different from the texts of the surrounding cultures generally haven't read any. i've known at least one christian who based his faith on this particular idea, only to have it completely shattered by a course in ancient literature.

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i'm sure the idea that other gods are not real can easily be defended with some later passages in the bible (we just don't see it in the older texts, however). the one i'm interested in is the position faith brought up:she believes at least some of them are real, just demonic in origin. can either of you find anything that would justify this position?This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 05-05-2006 11:18 PM

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Scripture says it straight out that they had other children. You'd be contradicting scripture:

how is it a counter culture? monothieism is not a new concept at all, even during that time, how is it missing the point of anything?
you are just giving the israelites a special place because they relate to your religion
you make them out to be in a vaccum when you have no evidience, but your belief that their beliefs were not affected by other peoples

ah, ok. yes, i had forgotten that the genealogies contained references like this. (cause, frankly, i don't read them too closely)you win this round.

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Deuteronomy 32:15. Message 199This has also been corroborated by some missionaries who have encountered belligerent demonic powers who don't want their human slaves set free in Christ.This message has been edited by Faith, 05-05-2006 11:28 PM

yes, you mentioned that before. it's a little questionable, in my opinion. it doesn't say that ALL other gods are demons, just those particular ones.from the other message: the commandment simply says that they will have no other gods in the presence of yahweh. it says nothing about how true or false those gods are, just that they are not to worship any other god. let's stick to the bible, though.

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The whole Biblical story is OBVIOUSLY counterculture. If that isn't obvious to you when you read it I guess I can't convince you.