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Author Topic:   egotheistic pantheism revealed...
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 208 of 308 (377317)
01-16-2007 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Archer Opteryx
01-16-2007 12:28 AM


Re: a word in your ear, gunslinger
Archer writes:
Why not just state your case as clearly as you can, and then sit back and do some listening?
I enjoy listening to other points of view...even Robs. I think that Rob is undergoing a learning curve if he chooses to embrace it. If God could speak through a donkey, he certainly can speak through a room of eclectic EvC irregulars!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-16-2007 12:28 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Rob, posted 01-16-2007 7:31 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 211 by ringo, posted 01-16-2007 10:00 PM Phat has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 215 of 308 (377472)
01-17-2007 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Rob
01-13-2007 12:47 AM


Daffynitions and Phat commentary
scottness in the O.P. writes:
All philosophies and religions are exclusive... including egotheistic pantheism.
Answers.com writes:
Egotheism is the deification of man's own conceptions of God, or the belief that man's conception of God is all that men can ever know of God. This position presupposes the impossibility of divine revelation and thus is a denial of the validity of faith and most theistic traditions, except for deism.
In a New Age context, egotheism can mean the deification of the self. Identification of the self, in some sense, with the divine, is a tenet of Hinduism (Atman as the "true self"), as well as certain versions of Christianity (as in the theology of St. Athanasios, that God became man so that man could become God). Complete identification of the self with God has been equated with atheism.
It has always been my belief that either we were imagined/created by God long before we as humans had the capability to define our religious beliefs or we imagined God and spread many stories and myths to keep the concept and legend alive.
I believe the former: We were made in His image...His imagination. I won't attempt to push this belief only because I wouldn't or shouldn't be an Ego theist. I don't identify my self with God in a conscious way, except to perhaps believe that I am in Communion (a common union) with His Spirit at times....(always? I dunno )

Convictions are very different from intentions. Convictions are something God gives us that we have to do. Intentions are things that we ought to do, but we never follow through with them.
* * * * * * * * * *

"Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system. I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance."-
--Sir Isaac Newton

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Rob, posted 01-13-2007 12:47 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by iceage, posted 01-17-2007 12:58 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 221 by Rob, posted 01-18-2007 12:18 AM Phat has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 235 of 308 (377956)
01-19-2007 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 228 by ringo
01-18-2007 7:14 PM


Re: Daffynitions and Phat commentary
Ringo writes:
The problem with anti-pantheists is that they can't reconcile "God is everywhere" with "God is everywhere".
Thats not the issue. The issue is "God is everything". God is one thing. God created all things. (directly or indirectly) God is not everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by ringo, posted 01-18-2007 7:14 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by ringo, posted 01-19-2007 3:02 AM Phat has replied
 Message 237 by Jaderis, posted 01-19-2007 3:38 AM Phat has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 238 of 308 (377968)
01-19-2007 4:32 AM
Reply to: Message 236 by ringo
01-19-2007 3:02 AM


Re: Daffynitions and Phat commentary
Ringo writes:
If "God is one thing" and "God created all things", then God created God?
And you haven't explained how "God is everywhere" differs from "God is everything". "Everywhere" implies in everything, doesn't it?
Allow me to be more precise. God is Spirit.
Behavior is important, and actions do speak louder than words.
I have heard it described much as in this analogy. The Holy Spirit is very polite and never forces His way into your house or your heart. He is with everyone on the planet yet He is not automatically in everyone on the planet. He knocks at the door to your house and you choose to either let Him in or leave Him out. He sits patiently in the waiting area until you choose to open those innermost doors that guard your soul and trust communion with Him. If it were any other way, none of us would ever sin for it would be like cheating on our wife...so intimate is His presence!
As to the fact of Him being in the table, or the floor, or all objects from the largest stars to the tiniest rocks, I see no need for a Creator to be in His creation any more than I see the need (or ability) of myself to be in the computer images of my written thoughts. As to where the limits of Gods presence actually are, I really do not know. All I know is that I love telling others what His unctions tell me!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by ringo, posted 01-19-2007 3:02 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by Jaderis, posted 01-19-2007 5:40 AM Phat has replied
 Message 242 by ringo, posted 01-19-2007 10:53 AM Phat has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 240 of 308 (377975)
01-19-2007 5:53 AM
Reply to: Message 239 by Jaderis
01-19-2007 5:40 AM


Re: Daffynitions and Phat commentary
Jaderis writes:
but so many of us cheat on the ones they love, including self-professed God-lovers.
Keyword: self-professed
Jaderis writes:
But, why does He (the spirit) wait at our doors, if God so hates sin.
perhaps the implication is that we are not in a pantheistic reality and God is not prone to force His Spirit on or in anybody. He gives us our space to allow for individuality.
Jaderis writes:
Why would God want or permit so much sin, if He were the only creative force?
So what are the implications involved in a duality of creative forces? Is there really more than one? When I am creative rather than destructive, am I not tapped in to the same creative force as perhaps you are?
Edited by Phat, : quotes
Edited by Phat, : darn quotes
Edited by Phat, :

Convictions are very different from intentions. Convictions are something God gives us that we have to do. Intentions are things that we ought to do, but we never follow through with them.
* * * * * * * * * *

"Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system. I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance."-
--Sir Isaac Newton

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Jaderis, posted 01-19-2007 5:40 AM Jaderis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by Jaderis, posted 01-19-2007 6:49 AM Phat has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 247 of 308 (378300)
01-20-2007 5:28 AM
Reply to: Message 224 by Rob
01-18-2007 12:58 AM


Re: Daffynitions and Phat commentary
I watch you as you respond to the posters in these threads with a lot of interest because I used to be very similar to you. At times, I still am. I was frustrated when confronted with logical people. They would wing post after post at me, and it appeared to me that I was a soldier for God who knew he was on the winning team no matter what those darn worldly minds could say! I treated each exchange with them as a battle of having the last word. I rationalized the exchange as a spiritual war of sorts. I struggled to explain why they were the way they are and why I was the way I am.
There were several of them that I could clearly see were hateful of me and of my ideas, more specifically. I soon realized that the more I preached at them, the dumber I looked. I also began to realize that there were more ways to look at God then the way that I had been taught. (Or even imparted) I, like you, began to see that I was a wretch who was fighting monsters where science showed me windmills. When I looked deep inside myself and saw the motive for answering each post (which was to refute or clarify everything....to frame the issue as such...) and when I saw that certain people (like Ringo and like Archer) seemed to have no hatred of me or of my religion but who were not fundamentalists yet who made sense at times...I was forced to admit that this battle was not between me and them, if, indeed, there were a battle.
And that is my belief to this day. The battle, (weapons of our warfare...not carnal...etc...) is between the Holy Spirit and each one of us.
Do you see my point? Our mission here as Christians is not to convince anybody of the Truth™ but to show others that we are peculiar, but not entirely wacko (Waco?) or delusional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Rob, posted 01-18-2007 12:58 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Rob, posted 01-20-2007 7:03 PM Phat has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 254 of 308 (378514)
01-21-2007 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Rob
01-20-2007 7:03 PM


Yahweh or the highway
Thats just it, though...Rob. I was a charismatic. I was saved. i remember the day as clear as if it were yesterday!
I was and am still amazed at God and the spiritual reality of life. Perhaps we are meant to achieve different missions, though because I began to realize that the charismatic type of spiritual teaching is not the only way that God uses and/or speaks through humans. You may have to learn the hard way. (One good thing, though: The awesomeness of God never diminishes in any way)
Its just that you can't immerse yourself in only one way of teaching, even IF Christ is a one way type of guy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Rob, posted 01-20-2007 7:03 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by Rob, posted 01-21-2007 12:40 AM Phat has not replied

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