egotheistic pantheism revealed...

I would like you to clean up the quotive mess, but I think I got your point. I dunno if there is really more than one, or two or even any "force" driving us as humans.The duality, however, to me implies that there are two equally strong forces forcing us to make a choice. If this were true, it also appears that the "evil" side has won throughout the majority of history (not only through the "unconverted masses" but through the actions of the "converted").Creative and destructive are opposing terms, but they can mean diferent things to different people.Some Christians see themselves as "creating" a world which their God can be proud of.To me, their world is destructive. I love my mother. I love my father. I love my neighbor. Even if they do one thing to "piss me off" I try to work it out. I want to live in a world where I can live my life the way I see fit without physically hurting someone else and I do that on a daily basis, but so many people think I am hurting them.I do not beat them, I do not accuse them of hurting my family. I am not actively working to destroy their family (however, someone in their family might agree with me whether they like it or not).I am living my life and I am happy. I am loved. I love. I give. I am given. I do not ignore those who need help (unless I actually cannot help them because I am poor...true story.I actively love my fellow man and revel in the world we have, but do not abuse it. My small part equals my small part in the world. Whatever I do here is all I have to give. I want to be a positive voice.Destruction, to me, would require severing bonds of trust. Much of that was seen in the "kingdom" world. Loyalty is an interesting bond. Are you loyal because you're "supposed" to be? Because you're paid to be? Because some priest in a temple told you to be?

Another Christian who doesn't understand what sin is? How do you define "cheating" on your wife? Is "cheating" on your wife the only way you can hurt her? Does the "intimacy" of having her around all the time prevent you from stepping on her toes once in a while?You are more likely to "step on God's toes" if He is always "under foot" - i.e if His presence is pervasive. Your analogy seems to suggest that only those "married to God" can sin. Of course, you are in the computer images of your written thoughts.That's the only Phat we ever know.

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Yep, that's the only Phat we know. But with pantheism, that would be the only Phat there is Phat who is the sum of his creations, Phat who is in every single post whether it is long, or short, ambitious, or trivial.There's no 'real' Phat at home, or if there is he definitely doesn't have a telephone...oh, or a 'reply' button for his messages. Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

Exactly. Phat is the sum total of his communications with us. As far as we know, that's all the reality there is to Phat.Now, since we are a lot like Phat in many ways, and we know that we have a "real" existence beyond our projected Internet existence, we can speculate that Phat also has a "real", extra-Internet existence.Sooooo... if we speculate that God has a "real", extra-sensory existence, we are tacitly suggesting that we are enough like God to "understand" His extra-sensory existence.The more we claim to know about God, the more pantheistic we become.

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Statistics show that Americans are growing Phatter all the time

Rob,I explained to you the difference between the words 'rational/irrational' and 'true/false.' A difference does exist. That's why logicians speak of the validity of their conclusions rather than automatically ascribing truth or falsehood to them.You seem to think this is some sort of personal creed of mine. It is not. I was just sharing basic Logic 101, day 1, lecture material.None of which has to do with 'blind faith' and 'seeing faith.' Those are sermon clichés.But that is the standard Rob defense mechanism: whenever new information proves bewildering, start preaching.__Edited by Archer Opterix, : clarity.Edited by Archer Opterix, : brevity.

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ArcherAll species are transitional.

I watch you as you respond to the posters in these threads with a lot of interest because I used to be very similar to you. At times, I still am. I was frustrated when confronted with logical people. They would wing post after post at me, and it appeared to me that I was a soldier for God who knew he was on the winning team no matter what those darn worldly minds could say! I treated each exchange with them as a battle of having the last word. I rationalized the exchange as a spiritual war of sorts. I struggled to explain why they were the way they are and why I was the way I am.There were several of them that I could clearly see were hateful of me and of my ideas, more specifically. I soon realized that the more I preached at them, the dumber I looked. I also began to realize that there were more ways to look at God then the way that I had been taught. (Or even imparted) I, like you, began to see that I was a wretch who was fighting monsters where science showed me windmills. When I looked deep inside myself and saw the motive for answering each post (which was to refute or clarify everything....to frame the issue as such...) and when I saw that certain people (like Ringo and like Archer) seemed to have no hatred of me or of my religion but who were not fundamentalists yet who made sense at times...I was forced to admit that this battle was not between me and them, if, indeed, there were a battle.And that is my belief to this day. The battle, (weapons of our warfare...not carnal...etc...) is between the Holy Spirit and each one of us.Do you see my point? Our mission here as Christians is not to convince anybody of the Truth™ but to show others that we are peculiar, but not entirely wacko (Waco?) or delusional.

It will also make you proud to know that I'm not aware of preaching spherical Hindu trigonometry.___

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ArcherAll species are transitional.

I plainly don't care for magicians illusions...I see right through the deception. If you do not, and my attempts to enlighten are not perceived, then oh well. It's not my job to save you... that's between you and God.I just do my best to say what I think and mean what I say.

Well if I am missing something I will just have to learn the hard way. I've never thought you were 'the enemy' btw. In fact our discourse in the chat room long ago inwhich I said I didn't trust you was because I was confusing you with AdminPD.As for whowing that we are not entirely wacko... how? By becoming more worldly?I think the New Testament makes it clear that we are aliens in enemy territory. They will not understand until they choose to. Their problem is not intellectual but moral.As my sister has said, 'you are a total lunatic in their minds.'I am happy to play the fool for Christ. Blessed!They that will hear will hear.

Smoke and mirrors may appeal to you and your fan base, but not I. You're better than this and need to step up and be a man some day.

You said; I do hope you know what he means, Rob. I think Archer is one of the most spiritual people here. Perhaps that is my bias, but being an artist I know artists CAN NOT survive without the element of the spiritual.The Trinity is for example a logically valid conclusion given the evidence we have/don't have. Whether or not it is true or false is not possible to determine. And believe me, I have been a christian for longer than you have, and it is not possible still. Even if it is the most logical conclusion, it is not possible to say it is true, or it is false.Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

Two things Amastasia...1. I was baptised into the Cathoilc church as an infant. I can't even remember it. And it was maningless. I was baptised with the Holy Spirt about 4 years ago, and I have learned more in those 4 years than in the preceding 32 years on this planet. Most of it came within the first days. Putting it into words will take a lifetime+.2. I have no doubts that Archer is spiritual. Being spiritual is not = to holiness or godliness. There are evil spirits you know?All of us are spirits. Even people who do not believe they are. You can be a complete spiritual dolt, and still be very spiritual. But in that case, it is a spirit of infirmity. Of blindess and deafness.

Thats just it, though...Rob. I was a charismatic. I was saved. i remember the day as clear as if it were yesterday!
I was and am still amazed at God and the spiritual reality of life. Perhaps we are meant to achieve different missions, though because I began to realize that the charismatic type of spiritual teaching is not the only way that God uses and/or speaks through humans. You may have to learn the hard way. (One good thing, though: The awesomeness of God never diminishes in any way)Its just that you can't immerse yourself in only one way of teaching, even IF Christ is a one way type of guy.

In reference to logicians, Rob wrote: You plainly do.Logic was a subject you introduced.You have raised the subject more often than anyone else on this thread. A logician is exactly what you have professed to be.To be sure, you provided scant evidence to support the claim. On the whole Rob talks about logic, others use it.Whenever that happens, Rob gets anxious that he is losing the contest he declared. Standard defense: start a new contest.A few hours ago you announced pride in your 'logical Christian reasoning.' Now you announce pride in your ineptitude at reasoning because it shows you are 'a fool for Christ.' You changed the game of Who Wants to be Rational? into Who Wants to be Crazy? in a single post.Like magic.___

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ArcherAll species are transitional.