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Author Topic:   egotheistic pantheism revealed...
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 1599 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 241 of 308 (377977)
01-19-2007 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by Thugpreacha
01-19-2007 5:53 AM


Re: Daffynitions and Phat commentary
I would like you to clean up the quotive mess, but I think I got your point.

So what are the implications involved in a duality of creative forces? Is there really more than one? When I am creative rather than destructive, am I not tapped in to the same creative force as perhaps you are?

I dunno if there is really more than one, or two or even any "force" driving us as humans.

The duality, however, to me implies that there are two equally strong forces forcing us to make a choice. If this were true, it also appears that the "evil" side has won throughout the majority of history (not only through the "unconverted masses" but through the actions of the "converted").

Creative and destructive are opposing terms, but they can mean diferent things to different people.

Some Christians see themselves as "creating" a world which their God can be proud of.

To me, their world is destructive. I love my mother. I love my father. I love my neighbor. Even if they do one thing to "piss me off" I try to work it out. I want to live in a world where I can live my life the way I see fit without physically hurting someone else and I do that on a daily basis, but so many people think I am hurting them.

I do not beat them, I do not accuse them of hurting my family. I am not actively working to destroy their family (however, someone in their family might agree with me whether they like it or not).

I am living my life and I am happy. I am loved. I love. I give. I am given. I do not ignore those who need help (unless I actually cannot help them because I am poor...true story.

I actively love my fellow man and revel in the world we have, but do not abuse it. My small part equals my small part in the world. Whatever I do here is all I have to give. I want to be a positive voice.

Destruction, to me, would require severing bonds of trust. Much of that was seen in the "kingdom" world. Loyalty is an interesting bond. Are you loyal because you're "supposed" to be? Because you're paid to be? Because some priest in a temple told you to be?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-19-2007 5:53 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16681
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 242 of 308 (378025)
01-19-2007 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by Thugpreacha
01-19-2007 4:32 AM


Re: Daffynitions and Phat commentary
Phat writes:

If it were any other way, none of us would ever sin for it would be like cheating on our wife...so intimate is His presence!

Another Christian who doesn't understand what sin is? :)

How do you define "cheating" on your wife? Is "cheating" on your wife the only way you can hurt her? Does the "intimacy" of having her around all the time prevent you from stepping on her toes once in a while?

You are more likely to "step on God's toes" if He is always "under foot" - i.e if His presence is pervasive. Your analogy seems to suggest that only those "married to God" can sin.

I see no need for a Creator to be in His creation any more than I see the need (or ability) of myself to be in the computer images of my written thoughts.

Of course, you are in the computer images of your written thoughts.

That's the only Phat we ever know.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-19-2007 4:32 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by anastasia, posted 01-19-2007 1:42 PM ringo has responded

anastasia
Member (Idle past 4126 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 243 of 308 (378078)
01-19-2007 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by ringo
01-19-2007 10:53 AM


Re: Daffynitions and Phat commentary
Ringo writes:

That's the only Phat we ever know.

Yep, that's the only Phat we know. But with pantheism, that would be the only Phat there is :) Phat who is the sum of his creations, Phat who is in every single post whether it is long, or short, ambitious, or trivial.

There's no 'real' Phat at home, or if there is he definitely doesn't have a telephone...oh, or a 'reply' button for his messages.

Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by ringo, posted 01-19-2007 10:53 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by ringo, posted 01-19-2007 3:15 PM anastasia has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16681
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 244 of 308 (378101)
01-19-2007 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by anastasia
01-19-2007 1:42 PM


Re: Daffynitions and Phat commentary
anastasia writes:

But with pantheism, that would be the only Phat there is

Exactly. Phat is the sum total of his communications with us. As far as we know, that's all the reality there is to Phat.

Now, since we are a lot like Phat in many ways, and we know that we have a "real" existence beyond our projected Internet existence, we can speculate that Phat also has a "real", extra-Internet existence.

Sooooo... if we speculate that God has a "real", extra-sensory existence, we are tacitly suggesting that we are enough like God to "understand" His extra-sensory existence.

The more we claim to know about God, the more pantheistic we become. :)


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Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by anastasia, posted 01-19-2007 1:42 PM anastasia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by anastasia, posted 01-19-2007 6:01 PM ringo has not yet responded

anastasia
Member (Idle past 4126 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 245 of 308 (378140)
01-19-2007 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by ringo
01-19-2007 3:15 PM


Re: Daffynitions and Phat commentary
Ringo writes:

we are tacitly suggesting that we are enough like God to "understand" His extra-sensory existence.

Statistics show that Americans are growing Phatter all the time :)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by ringo, posted 01-19-2007 3:15 PM ringo has not yet responded

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1771 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 246 of 308 (378296)
01-20-2007 4:56 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by Rob
01-18-2007 12:46 AM


Logic 101
Rob,

I explained to you the difference between the words 'rational/irrational' and 'true/false.' A difference does exist. That's why logicians speak of the validity of their conclusions rather than automatically ascribing truth or falsehood to them.

You seem to think this is some sort of personal creed of mine. It is not. I was just sharing basic Logic 101, day 1, lecture material.

None of which has to do with 'blind faith' and 'seeing faith.' Those are sermon clichés.

But that is the standard Rob defense mechanism: whenever new information proves bewildering, start preaching.

__

Edited by Archer Opterix, : clarity.

Edited by Archer Opterix, : brevity.


Archer

All species are transitional.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Rob, posted 01-18-2007 12:46 AM Rob has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by Rob, posted 01-20-2007 6:58 PM Archer Opteryx has responded

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12445
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 247 of 308 (378300)
01-20-2007 5:28 AM
Reply to: Message 224 by Rob
01-18-2007 12:58 AM


Re: Daffynitions and Phat commentary
I watch you as you respond to the posters in these threads with a lot of interest because I used to be very similar to you. At times, I still am. I was frustrated when confronted with logical people. They would wing post after post at me, and it appeared to me that I was a soldier for God who knew he was on the winning team no matter what those darn worldly minds could say! :mad: I treated each exchange with them as a battle of having the last word. I rationalized the exchange as a spiritual war of sorts. I struggled to explain why they were the way they are and why I was the way I am.

There were several of them that I could clearly see were hateful of me and of my ideas, more specifically. I soon realized that the more I preached at them, the dumber I looked. I also began to realize that there were more ways to look at God then the way that I had been taught. (Or even imparted) I, like you, began to see that I was a wretch who was fighting monsters where science showed me windmills. When I looked deep inside myself and saw the motive for answering each post (which was to refute or clarify everything....to frame the issue as such...) and when I saw that certain people (like Ringo and like Archer) seemed to have no hatred of me or of my religion but who were not fundamentalists yet who made sense at times...I was forced to admit that this battle was not between me and them, if, indeed, there were a battle.

And that is my belief to this day. The battle, (weapons of our warfare...not carnal...etc...) is between the Holy Spirit and each one of us.

Do you see my point? Our mission here as Christians is not to convince anybody of the Truth™ but to show others that we are peculiar, but not entirely wacko (Waco?) or delusional.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Rob, posted 01-18-2007 12:58 AM Rob has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Rob, posted 01-20-2007 7:03 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1771 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 248 of 308 (378377)
01-20-2007 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Rob
01-18-2007 11:48 PM


divine math
Archer, I am proud of you. You're preaching logical Christian reasoning and were not even aware of it.

It will also make you proud to know that I'm not aware of preaching spherical Hindu trigonometry.

___


Archer

All species are transitional.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Rob, posted 01-18-2007 11:48 PM Rob has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by Rob, posted 01-20-2007 7:06 PM Archer Opteryx has not yet responded

Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4022 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 249 of 308 (378450)
01-20-2007 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by Archer Opteryx
01-20-2007 4:56 AM


Re: Logic 101
That's why logicians speak of the validity of their conclusions rather than automatically ascribing truth or falsehood to them.

I plainly don't care for magicians illusions...

I see right through the deception. If you do not, and my attempts to enlighten are not perceived, then oh well. It's not my job to save you... that's between you and God.

I just do my best to say what I think and mean what I say.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-20-2007 4:56 AM Archer Opteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by anastasia, posted 01-20-2007 11:22 PM Rob has responded
 Message 255 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-21-2007 12:37 AM Rob has responded

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4022 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 250 of 308 (378452)
01-20-2007 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Thugpreacha
01-20-2007 5:28 AM


Re: Daffynitions and Phat commentary
Do you see my point? Our mission here as Christians is not to convince anybody of the Truth™ but to show others that we are peculiar, but not entirely wacko (Waco?) or delusional.

Well if I am missing something I will just have to learn the hard way. I've never thought you were 'the enemy' btw. In fact our discourse in the chat room long ago inwhich I said I didn't trust you was because I was confusing you with AdminPD.

As for whowing that we are not entirely wacko... how? By becoming more worldly?

I think the New Testament makes it clear that we are aliens in enemy territory. They will not understand until they choose to. Their problem is not intellectual but moral.

As my sister has said, 'you are a total lunatic in their minds.'

I am happy to play the fool for Christ. Blessed!

They that will hear will hear.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-20-2007 5:28 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-21-2007 12:25 AM Rob has responded

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4022 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 251 of 308 (378458)
01-20-2007 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by Archer Opteryx
01-20-2007 1:57 PM


Re: divine math
Smoke and mirrors may appeal to you and your fan base, but not I. You're better than this and need to step up and be a man some day.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-20-2007 1:57 PM Archer Opteryx has not yet responded

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 4126 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 252 of 308 (378502)
01-20-2007 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by Rob
01-20-2007 6:58 PM


Re: Logic 101
Archer writes:

That's why logicians speak of the validity of their conclusions rather than automatically ascribing truth or falsehood to them.

You said;

Rob writes:

I plainly don't care for magicians illusions...

I do hope you know what he means, Rob. I think Archer is one of the most spiritual people here. Perhaps that is my bias, but being an artist I know artists CAN NOT survive without the element of the spiritual.

The Trinity is for example a logically valid conclusion given the evidence we have/don't have. Whether or not it is true or false is not possible to determine. And believe me, I have been a christian for longer than you have, and it is not possible still. Even if it is the most logical conclusion, it is not possible to say it is true, or it is false.

Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Rob, posted 01-20-2007 6:58 PM Rob has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by Rob, posted 01-21-2007 12:09 AM anastasia has responded

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4022 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 253 of 308 (378511)
01-21-2007 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by anastasia
01-20-2007 11:22 PM


Re: Logic 101
I do hope you know what he means, Rob. I think Archer is one of the most spiritual people here. Perhaps that is my bias, but being an artist I know artists CAN NOT survive without the element of the spiritual.

The Trinity is for example a logically valid conclusion given the evidence we have/don't have. Whether or not it is true or false is not possible to determine. And believe me, I have been a christian for longer than you have, and it is not possible still. Even if it is the most logical conclusion, it is not possible to say it is true, or it is false.

Two things Amastasia...

1. I was baptised into the Cathoilc church as an infant. I can't even remember it. And it was maningless. I was baptised with the Holy Spirt about 4 years ago, and I have learned more in those 4 years than in the preceding 32 years on this planet. Most of it came within the first days. Putting it into words will take a lifetime+.

2. I have no doubts that Archer is spiritual. Being spiritual is not = to holiness or godliness. There are evil spirits you know?

All of us are spirits. Even people who do not believe they are. You can be a complete spiritual dolt, and still be very spiritual. But in that case, it is a spirit of infirmity. Of blindess and deafness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by anastasia, posted 01-20-2007 11:22 PM anastasia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by anastasia, posted 01-21-2007 1:37 AM Rob has responded
 Message 264 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-21-2007 9:40 AM Rob has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12445
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 254 of 308 (378514)
01-21-2007 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Rob
01-20-2007 7:03 PM


Yahweh or the highway
Thats just it, though...Rob. I was a charismatic. I was saved. i remember the day as clear as if it were yesterday!
I was and am still amazed at God and the spiritual reality of life. Perhaps we are meant to achieve different missions, though because I began to realize that the charismatic type of spiritual teaching is not the only way that God uses and/or speaks through humans. You may have to learn the hard way. (One good thing, though: The awesomeness of God never diminishes in any way)

Its just that you can't immerse yourself in only one way of teaching, even IF Christ is a one way type of guy.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Rob, posted 01-20-2007 7:03 PM Rob has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by Rob, posted 01-21-2007 12:40 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1771 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 255 of 308 (378517)
01-21-2007 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by Rob
01-20-2007 6:58 PM


Re: Logic 101
In reference to logicians, Rob wrote:

I plainly don't care for magicians illusions...

You plainly do.

Logic was a subject you introduced.

You have raised the subject more often than anyone else on this thread. A logician is exactly what you have professed to be.

To be sure, you provided scant evidence to support the claim. On the whole Rob talks about logic, others use it.

Whenever that happens, Rob gets anxious that he is losing the contest he declared. Standard defense: start a new contest.

A few hours ago you announced pride in your 'logical Christian reasoning.' Now you announce pride in your ineptitude at reasoning because it shows you are 'a fool for Christ.' You changed the game of Who Wants to be Rational? into Who Wants to be Crazy? in a single post.

Like magic.

___


Archer

All species are transitional.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Rob, posted 01-20-2007 6:58 PM Rob has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by Rob, posted 01-21-2007 12:47 AM Archer Opteryx has responded

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