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Author
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Topic: Fresh Problem with the Ark
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6044 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 100 of 328 (118387)
06-24-2004 6:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 95 by simple
06-24-2004 2:18 PM
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Re: It's starting to make sense
Did they boil it, or add something to it for safety? I don't know. God could have led them just right over the nice cleaner, fresher water areas, so I doubt it was needed, but He's not stupid, it was all worked out to perfection. Besides, it may not have rained the whole flood year all over the world, but ot very well may have rained in the location the ark was pretty well the whole time!!! How hard is it to rig up a system to pipe some down from several little openings near the top of the ark! I know you are coming up with all of this outlandish speculation in order to support a biblical story, but your comment -"He's not stupid, it was all worked out to perfection" struck me: Why did God use such a convoluted system to get rid of everyone and everything he was sick of? Why not just have them drop dead, or just disappear for that matter... Perhaps to torture everyone? That doesn't jive with my ideas of a loving God... The whole giant-boat with ten-of-thousands of animals, with water distiller and sewage system, plus magically migrating and hibernating animals, in order to survive a massive deluge, followed by massive plate tectonic shifts in order to return the land - it all seems far from "perfection" to me...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 95 by simple, posted 06-24-2004 2:18 PM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 102 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 12:02 AM | | pink sasquatch has replied |
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6044 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 108 of 328 (118518)
06-25-2004 12:39 AM
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Reply to: Message 102 by simple
06-25-2004 12:02 AM
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Re: It's starting to make sense
arkathon writes: How would I know? I don't tell Him what to do?... Oh I see, you don't know God's intents or methods. Okay.
Lose the tectonic speculation and you may get closer to it... He'll fix all that soon, and the demo will be over, with valuable lessons for all. But wait, you know He didn't alter plate tectonics for the post flood landfall? and you seem to be giving an awful lot of credence to the idea that He allowed animals special hibernation powers, how sewage was disposed of, and clean water was obtained... (and you seem to know that "He'll fix all that soon.") So do you know something about all this or don't you? Why do you claim that all the ark animals hibernated, but that plate tectonic activity wasn't involved in the great flood experience? Is there some logic behind it?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 102 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 12:02 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 110 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 1:06 AM | | pink sasquatch has replied |
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6044 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 111 of 328 (118537)
06-25-2004 1:18 AM
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Reply to: Message 110 by simple
06-25-2004 1:06 AM
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Re: It's starting to make sense
It's just that the whole pt theory seems designed to prop up old age way of explaining everything. So I don't buy the whole package on that one. I hope you realize that to me the hibernation theory comes off a bit "old age way of explaining everything", "So I don't buy the whole package on that one."
If there is a God, why wouldn't He do it that way? If there's a God who is loving and omnipotent, why did he decide to make all of the animals NOT on the ark suffer, since I didn't think animals were capable of sin... what about all the human children and babies, born and unborn? drown a kitten, go to jail...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 110 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 1:06 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 113 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 1:29 AM | | pink sasquatch has replied |
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6044 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 114 of 328 (118548)
06-25-2004 1:41 AM
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Reply to: Message 113 by simple
06-25-2004 1:29 AM
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Re: It's starting to make sense
That was funny! Thanks!
Babies? God loves em, and doesn't want mothers to kill their children. Right... my point... God killed a whole heck of a lot of babies with his great flood, didn't he? Why, in order to save mankind? The Guy's omniscient and omnipotent - I think he could've come up with a way to save mankind without killing all of the babies and kittens and puppies... I have trouble seeing the literal translation of the Bible as supporting the notion of a loving God. A mean, sadistic God, yes. There are many ways to teach lessons without torture and destruction. (And with that I've wandered off topic...)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 113 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 1:29 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 115 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 1:56 AM | | pink sasquatch has replied |
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6044 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 116 of 328 (118560)
06-25-2004 2:07 AM
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Reply to: Message 115 by simple
06-25-2004 1:56 AM
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to teach lessons without torture and destruction
That really didn't reply to the point of my post:
pink sasquatch writes: The Guy's omniscient and omnipotent - I think he could've come up with a way to save mankind without killing all of the babies and kittens and puppies... There are many ways to teach lessons without torture and destruction. arkathon writes: If they hadn't done it with animals so much, maybe God could've saved the creatures. God is omnipotent, he "could've saved the creatures". I think God's will would supercede humankind's. I just wish his "love" would.
arkathon writes: It was Love Itself that saved us. Again, you'll have to explain to me how "Love" equates to torture, death, and destruction of the innocent.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 115 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 1:56 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 117 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 2:27 AM | | pink sasquatch has replied |
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6044 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 118 of 328 (118572)
06-25-2004 2:35 AM
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Reply to: Message 117 by simple
06-25-2004 2:27 AM
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Re: to teach lessons without torture and destruction
I think this has gone beyond logic:
torture? He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked! He did what He had to do. There was no destruction of the innocent, but the very wicked. "He did what He had to do"? Why did He have to do it? and in that way? He's God, isn't He? What is making him "have" to do things? If your child misbehaves, do you beat them to death? No. Why not? Because it is immoral and evil. Again, my point. By your statement, every single human baby on Earth at the time of the flood was "very wicked." Do you actually believe that?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 117 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 2:27 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 119 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 2:57 AM | | pink sasquatch has replied |
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6044 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 120 of 328 (118576)
06-25-2004 3:02 AM
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Reply to: Message 119 by simple
06-25-2004 2:57 AM
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drowning babies
Twice now you haven't answered my main point: By your previous statements, every single human baby on Earth at the time of the flood was "very wicked," and deserved to die. Do you actually believe this?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 119 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 2:57 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 121 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 3:09 AM | | pink sasquatch has replied |
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6044 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 122 of 328 (118582)
06-25-2004 3:28 AM
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Reply to: Message 121 by simple
06-25-2004 3:09 AM
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Re: saving us forever
arkathon writes: Sorry, the world was so bad it had to be wiped out... If you think of Him as the great spirit of Love, it may help. Are you reading your own comments? Don't you see the hypocrisy?
Gen6:7 writes: So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth - men and animals, creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air - for I am grieved that I have made them." Sounds more like regret and cowardice than love to me. Love would have meant finding another way. (Also, I didn't find anything in Genesis about God killing babies so that they wouldn't end up "growing up to marry a monkey," so I'm not sure where you came up with that...)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 121 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 3:09 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 123 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 3:43 AM | | pink sasquatch has replied |
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6044 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 124 of 328 (118592)
06-25-2004 3:57 AM
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Reply to: Message 123 by simple
06-25-2004 3:43 AM
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Re: saving us forever
You make it sound like a quick death in the flood was really so bad! After you and your family and everyone you know suffer death by drowning, then you can talk about how "a quick death in the flood" wasn't "really so bad."
Man was saved as a result! Really, I thought only eight humans were saved, and the rest suffered death by drowning... (I know what you really meant by "saved" by the way.)
The wickedness was set back a whole lot. Just think about it - if rather than killing off the planet, God had just decided to send down Jesus a bit early to die for humanity's sins, wickedness could have been set back without all of the death and destruction. No more can a logical connection be made between the flood story and 'Love' than between 'Love' and the Nazi Holocaust. If that's you're version of 'Love' I'd hate to see your version of hate...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 123 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 3:43 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 128 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 2:02 PM | | pink sasquatch has not replied |
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6044 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 147 of 328 (118763)
06-25-2004 6:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 135 by mark24
06-25-2004 2:38 PM
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Re: how about it?
Hey Mark,
Why couldn't he just click his fingers & make it OK? I already tried this line of thinking with Arkathon above in this thread (and gave up, eventually...) Apparently, God creating all of the humans and creatures, then killing the whole lot by drowning, was his way of showing how loving he is... The clicking of fingers (I think I said "just make the wicked disappear") would have been too easy... not enough suffering... torture = love? not my God...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 135 by mark24, posted 06-25-2004 2:38 PM | | mark24 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 172 by mark24, posted 06-26-2004 9:42 AM | | pink sasquatch has not replied |
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6044 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 149 of 328 (118775)
06-25-2004 6:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 140 by simple
06-25-2004 3:44 PM
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Re: Preservation in OT times
Need a nice whirlpool flush? How about some nice warm water in places, where conditions were perfect for some crap eating bacteria, or mussels, or algea or some such? How about a floating island of plants, and tree debris to toss some out on? Maybe there was a hec of a lot of nice meaty bugs to help adjust to a new world, and new diet? Maybe they had a lot of chickens who multiplied fast, and other fowl, after all they had a whole year to have chics in the ark! (maybe not all critters were hibernated) Maybe they ate a lot of fish! Hey, how about some seals, or marine dinosaurs? How about a few now beached whales? How about manna from the sky? How about feeding 5 thousand carnivores with one chicken, and a cup full of termites! Another thought, the Sargasse sea has zillions of floating plants. Don't some plants, like in a swamp act as a natural water cleaner? Yeah! I get it now! And maybe the animals ate those plants, too! If all animals can hibernate, surely all animals can all swim! Perhaps they all jumped overboard a couple times a day, grabbed a few mouthfuls of fish and seaweed, took a crap in the water, then jumped back onboard! It all makes perfect sense, especially if you consider that God could have levitated the animals in and out of the ark! Or maybe all of the whales on the planet pulled up along side of the ark, and made a giant blubbery platform so the cheetahs could stretch their legs! Monkeys, lemurs, and parrots are pretty smart, perhaps God enhanced there intellect and fine motor skills so they could help out around the ark! Or robots! Maybe God made robots! After all, God's perfect, and had the whole thing planned out! It just had to have worked, with God at the helm!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 140 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 3:44 PM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 151 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 6:30 PM | | pink sasquatch has replied |
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6044 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 152 of 328 (118786)
06-25-2004 6:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 151 by simple
06-25-2004 6:30 PM
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Re: Hand on helm
Consider the alternatives. Hmmmm.... what alternatives... Perhaps that the Bible is historically inaccurate, and that the "Great Flood" was a catastrophic, but regional, event? That's a great alternative - it doesn't require your ridiculous endless speculations, and can be examined in an extra-biblical manner. Sounds good to me... (I'm also enjoying the fact that didn't refute my theory that God manned the ark with robots...)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 151 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 6:30 PM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 154 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 7:35 PM | | pink sasquatch has not replied |
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6044 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Re: Food source?
PecosGeorge writes: Let me make the matter a little more complex, the animals came on board two by two, but those considered 'clean', came by sevens. Guess why? It depends on whether you want to believe random supposition (they were a food source), or if you choose to believe the Bible:
Genesis 8:20-21 Then Noah built an altar to the LORD and taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart, "Never again will I curse the ground because of man... God knew that, after the flood, He would want to smell the burning flesh of every clean (worthy of sacrifice) species in existence. If Noah's job saving every single species on Earth wasn't hard enough, afterwards he had to burn every single species on Earth.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 198 by PecosGeorge, posted 06-27-2004 11:39 PM | | PecosGeorge has not replied |
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6044 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 211 of 328 (120475)
06-30-2004 5:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 208 by simple
06-30-2004 3:28 AM
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Re: do it with mirrors
If it fits with what He already said, as opposed to tries to contradict, and make Him a liar. You mean like how He contradicts himself regarding the number of animals to be taken on the ark?
Genesis 6:19 "And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark."
Genesis 7:8-9 "Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah."
Genesis 7:15 "And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life."
Genesis 7:2 "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female." Two of every living thing... two of every clean beast... two of all flesh... ah hell, I changed my mind, make it seven of every clean beast...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 208 by simple, posted 06-30-2004 3:28 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 212 by RAZD, posted 06-30-2004 7:17 PM | | pink sasquatch has not replied | | | Message 213 by simple, posted 07-01-2004 3:08 AM | | pink sasquatch has replied |
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6044 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 215 of 328 (120596)
07-01-2004 3:38 AM
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Reply to: Message 213 by simple
07-01-2004 3:08 AM
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Re: do it by twos!
Noah, get these babies in first, they are important! Then, after they are all safe in the lower levels, time to load up some bred to eat types... The verses in my message weren't in chronological order - I just placed 7:2 last for emphasis. So it was after God said 'take seven' that he said 'take two.' Seems like a contradiction to me.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 213 by simple, posted 07-01-2004 3:08 AM | | simple has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 217 by simple, posted 07-01-2004 3:52 AM | | pink sasquatch has not replied |
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