So Just How is ID's Supernatural-based Science Supposed to Work? (SUM. MESSAGES ONLY)

Buzz, when you plot a logarithmic function on a logarithmic scale, it is a straight line. On a linear scale it is a curved line, but the function is the same.A straight bar in curved space would still be straight in space, but it would be curving around from the reference of outside of space.You're calling this bar "not absolutely straight" but you measure the straight-ness in regards to the space it occupies. Since it is space, itself, that is bent and not the bar, then the bar is striaght by any worthwhile definition even though it curves back onto itself.You're just saying: "Nuh-uh, that's not a straight bar!" but you don't really have a basis for the claim. It s straight by any definition that anyone cares about. That you want to make up your own word just so you can claim irrefutability is rather lame, IMHO.

He's saying that the phenomenon are actually occuring, but that there's nothing going on outside the realm of physics.

I dunno... lets use Faith Healing as an example, with these possibilities:

• God is hearing the prayers and magically healing people - Real supernatural phenomenon.
• People are not being healed at all - no supernatural, no phenomenon
• People are being healed, but its all natural - no supernatural, but real phenomenon

I think that he would be taking the position of the last one, and if so then there isn't really a contradiction.Does that make sense?

Why not?I think it does. Its consistant with all this:

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I think what you're actually thinking of is events that take place in the natural world but that have a supernatural cause.

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You’re wrong. I believe the lack of science to explain supernatural phenomenon only means science is limited. Anything true will be natural to the laws of physics. (But we don't understand all the laws of physics yet.)

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Then we agree that nothing is supernatural. The point I’m making is supernatural phenomenon is real, but is beyond the abilities of current science to explain.

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Supernatural phenomenon: An observable occurrence, attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

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I said exactly what I meant, with the exception of meaning: nothing true is truly outside of the laws of true physics; it is only supernatural because current science cannot explain it. (When I said: nothing is supernatural). The reason I said Nothing is supernatural is because the word is generally used here in the way that it means Truly impossible to all laws of true physics

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Like I said:

What's the problem?Some people think that Faith Healing events are totally bunk and nothing is happening at all. Some people think that God is answering prayers. Tesla seems to be thinking that something is actually happening, but that its not something outside the laws of physics.What's so unclear about that?What are you reading that makes you think he's saying something differently?

The phenomenon are real, and they are described as supernatural because they're currently unexplained, but they actually have natural explanations waiting to be discovered... They're not really supernatural.Contradiction?

The point is that "supernatural phenomenon" are not really supernatural.