So Just How is ID's Supernatural-based Science Supposed to Work? (SUM. MESSAGES ONLY)

by all definitions that is a pretty good word to describe it. The events are not fictional. our ability to explain supernatural events can be considered fictional. But so can: dark matter, big bang theory, string theory, chaos theory, and any other theory not proven. No, it means something that cannot be explained by known science and laws of physics, and appears to ignore what we know of reality.

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keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

I briefly opened your link earlier this afternoon to see what it said about the supernatural, but when I discovered it didn't contain the word "supernatural" I closed it again. I think it was about psychic research. In your mind, is psychic research about the supernatural?--Percy

Let me guess, nobody on this site understands the definition of the word supernatural?supernatural/ˌso͞opərˈnaCH(ə)rəl/
Noun: Manifestations or events considered to be of supernatural origin.
Adjective: (of a manifestation or event) Attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.You wonder why interest in this debate site is waning? because instead of intelligent debate you get ridiculous bickering.I guess you also believe that science has unlocked all the mysteries of the universe?Or do you consider supernatural to only to mean things that science will never understand because there not real? I think that word is: fiction.There have been numerous supernatural ideas attributed to what we now call natural phenomenon. Do you think that things considered supernatural today will ever be exposed to the truth of the events and called natural as well?Oh no I get ityou believe all supernatural things will be explained as imagination. Or some other explainable reason that fits your ideology. The truth of that is yet to be seen. And until it is seen, you’re just another human using dogmatism to support your own ideology so you can sleep at night.No? Sorry if I seem a little disgruntled. I have been arguing the definition of supernatural for two days and I am now convinced no one here understands English. I will however save parts of these debates to discuss with my professors who at least seem to be able to understand definitions.

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keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

So you think it is not you: it is everyone else?
I continue to feel that my decision to stop discussing supernatural phenomena with you has been thoroughly validated.

Hi Tesla,If you're going to insist on definitions no one else here agrees with then you're going to be stuck discussing definitions. How much sense would it make for everyone else to switch definitions but you, instead of the other way around?Science studies the natural. The supernatural is by definition beyond science's ability to study because the supernatural isn't perceivable by our senses, and anything we can't sense can't be tested, and testability is the very foundation of scientific investigation.Conversely by definition, anything apparent to our senses is natural. Any phenomena we can see, such as the sun stopping in the sky for 24 hours, is by definition natural.I think what you're actually thinking of is events that take place in the natural world but that have a supernatural cause. I don't myself think this is possible, and in any case, in the history of science no phenomenon has ever been traced to a supernatural cause, so there's no precedent for believing that supernatural causes exist.--Percy

You’re wrong. Supernatural phenomenon is being studied in a scientific fashion in an attempt to understand the phenomenon.ASSAP educationand more: ASSAP links to other paranormal siteshttp://www2.lib.udel.edu/subj/psyc/resguide/parapsyc.htmCheck it out, most scientists are afraid to touch 'supernatural' research openly this one did:WordPress › Error You’re wrong. I believe the lack of science to explain supernatural phenomenon only means science is limited. Anything true will be natural to the laws of physics. (But we don't understand all the laws of physics yet.)
This doesn’t mean a lot isn’t faked. A lot is. But some isn’t. And that’s why it’s such a big deal to so many. Nothing say’s ‘holy sheet’ like a personal experience.

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keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

Tesla you mentioned 'bickering' within this site earlier, have you ever considered that absolute statements like "You're wrong." Might be the cause of this?The first site you linked is a school for learning about 'paranormal phenomena'. First of all this appears to be a privately funded school, it also appears that the 'scientific' research is being kept quite (as I have never seen anything published in any reputable scientific journals by this affiliation). I could also open up a school to scientifically study the effects that Leprechaun's play on the weather, I somewhat doubt anything useful would come of it though."You’re wrong. I believe the lack of science to explain supernatural phenomenon only means science is limited."Or perhaps the Supernatural phenomenon could be incorrect? Let me ask you something: (theoretically) if Supernatural Phenomena really do occur, if you really wish Scientists to look into this and value it as a valid Hypothesis, then where would we begin? How would we test such a thing, what would our Hypothesis be? What would our Aim be? Even more how would we falsify such a claim? Such things are leaving the realm of science my friend.I think you're really dragging the point off from the main topic though. If we are to take the idea of an Intelligent Designer as a valid Hypothesis then how would we test this? How would we falsify it? What research could possibly come out of this?Now we might take some type of Paranormal Research in the future and decide to see if it's plausible. But we would still have to test this using Scientific methods, can you propose any such methods at the moment by which we may test/falsify these claims?

Hi Tesla,You're making my own case for me. I just explained that what I believe you're thinking of is a natural phenomenon that has a supernatural explanation, and that's precisely what your first link is about. It's for a website promoting investigation the paranormal like ghosts and UFOs and PSI (see ASSAP).For example, they record the results of card-guessing trials looking for statistical deviations from simple guessing. If they find any then they have evidence of something we can't explain. This website does mention the supernatural, but if you assume the explanation is something supernatural, something beyond science's ability to test, how are you going to test for it?--Percy

Then we agree that nothing is supernatural. The point I’m making is supernatural phenomenon is real, but is beyond the abilities of current science to explain. There first has to be validation of the actual phenomenon before any scientist can begin looking for how the phenomenon works.

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keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

If someone tells me what it is I personally believe I reserve the right to correct them.As far as doing scientific research beyond the limits of science: how can you? It’s beyond your abilities. One day you might be able to. What I believe would be healthy for the scientific community and for all of mankind is for science to remain open to the possibilities until it is understood. Instead, the majority of scientists and professors choose to ignore the potential all together. That is not science. That is a personal belief.When science has figured out how to record thoughts and read thoughts by whatever the brain does to interpret and read them, only then can more work could be done towards that end.Understanding consciousness is the first task.Edited by tesla, : elaboration.

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keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

Here's what you just said:

1. Nothing is supernatural.
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2. Supernatural phenomenon are real.

Perhaps that's not what you really intended to say? The website you linked to provided an example, guessing cards. Let's say they find a statistically significant difference from guessing. Given that supernatural causes cannot be detected by our senses, else they'd be natural and not supernatural, please explain how to investigate the possibility of supernatural causes.--Percy

A lesson in English:A phenomenon (from Greek o), plural phenomena or phenomenons, is any observable occurrence.supernatural/ˌso͞opərˈnaCH(ə)rəl/
Noun: Manifestations or events considered to be of supernatural origin.
Adjective: (of a manifestation or event) Attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.Supernatural phenomenon: An observable occurrence, attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.I said exactly what I meant, with the exception of meaning: nothing true is truly outside of the laws of true physics; it is only supernatural because current science cannot explain it. (When I said: nothing is supernatural). The reason I said Nothing is supernatural is because the word is generally used here in the way that it means Truly impossible to all laws of true physics First: admit the occurrences.Second: look for explanations within scientific means.Third: note any occurrences not explainable.Fourth: form a hypothesis. (Try to identify what technology or ability or knowledge science would need to have before the phenomenon could be explained. ie : understand consciousness as it physically is communicated, be it: read and interpret brain waves, cell interpretation of chemicals, how the brain stores and reads cognitive function etc.

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keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

Do you think that these 2 sentences contradict each other?My parrot is blue.
My parrot is not blue.

He's saying that the phenomenon are actually occuring, but that there's nothing going on outside the realm of physics.

That depends on the reader.My parrot is blue: depressed
My parrot is not blue: [My parrot] is not the color blue.

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keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides