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Author Topic:   So Just How is ID's Supernatural-based Science Supposed to Work? (SUM. MESSAGES ONLY)
jar
Member
Posts: 31178
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 331 of 396 (618312)
06-02-2011 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by tesla
06-02-2011 4:54 PM


Re: open minded debate
tesla writes:

If you do not have evidence that God or superior consciousness or supernatural even exist then there is NOTHING to investigate.

Do you have evidence that dark matter exists? oh I guess that means there is nothing to investigate then huh?

Of course there is evidence that Dark Matter exists, In fact it was the evidence that there was more matter in the universe than could be accounted for by the visible matter that began the study.

And that is precisely the difference.

If there was evidence that anything like "that God or superior consciousness or supernatural" existed comparable to the evidence that began the search for Dark Matter then there might be something to investigate.

So is there anything comparable to the evidence that exists for Dark Matter or God or superior consciousness or supernatural?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by tesla, posted 06-02-2011 4:54 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by tesla, posted 06-02-2011 5:13 PM jar has responded

tesla
Member (Idle past 2286 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 332 of 396 (618313)
06-02-2011 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 331 by jar
06-02-2011 5:03 PM


Re: open minded debate
Of course there is evidence that Dark Matter exists, In fact it was the evidence that there was more matter in the universe than could be accounted for by the visible matter that began the study.

Oh, so you mean they said : hey there is something missing let’s give it a name and research it.

So absence of evidence justified looking.

Um...hello...are you in there?


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by jar, posted 06-02-2011 5:03 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by jar, posted 06-02-2011 5:22 PM tesla has acknowledged this reply
 Message 335 by Theodoric, posted 06-02-2011 6:02 PM tesla has responded
 Message 347 by Scienctifictruths, posted 06-02-2011 8:38 PM tesla has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31178
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 333 of 396 (618315)
06-02-2011 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 332 by tesla
06-02-2011 5:13 PM


Why we are investigating Dark Matter
tesla writes:

Of course there is evidence that Dark Matter exists, In fact it was the evidence that there was more matter in the universe than could be accounted for by the visible matter that began the study.

Oh, so you mean they said : hey there is something missing let’s give it a name and research it.

So absence of evidence justified looking.

Um...hello...are you in there?

I'm sorry but that is simply a totally false post, filled with errors and a lack of reasoning or understanding.

There was evidence, the gravitational attraction was there. There was evidence, lots of evidence, confirmed by observation after observation, that there was more mass out there than could be seen. The evidence was there. There had to be something other than just the visible matter we could see.

It was not the absence of evidence that started the investigation but rather lots of evidence.

So is there anything comparable to the evidence that exists for Dark Matter or God or superior consciousness or supernatural?

Edited by jar, : fix subtitle

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by tesla, posted 06-02-2011 5:13 PM tesla has acknowledged this reply

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6490
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 334 of 396 (618320)
06-02-2011 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by tesla
06-02-2011 4:52 PM


Re: open minded debate
Well the Irish believe in Leprechauns, so we should spend millions to research them, in the hopes we might find some evidence for Leprechauns?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by tesla, posted 06-02-2011 4:52 PM tesla has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6490
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 335 of 396 (618321)
06-02-2011 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 332 by tesla
06-02-2011 5:13 PM


Re: open minded debate
Oh, so you mean they said : hey there is something missing let’s give it a name and research it.

So absence of evidence justified looking.


Maybe you should research dark matter a little before you make comments about it. All you are showing here is your ignorance about the subject.
Evidence for Dark Matter

That took me 3 seconds to find.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by tesla, posted 06-02-2011 5:13 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by tesla, posted 06-02-2011 6:40 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2286 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 336 of 396 (618328)
06-02-2011 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by Theodoric
06-02-2011 6:02 PM


Re: open minded debate
Maybe you should research dark matter a little before you make comments about it. All you are showing here is your ignorance about the subject.

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/...ies/imagine/dark_matter.html

"The search for the nature of dark matter is a very active field in astronomy and physics. Scientists do not know what it is made of , but they are investigating a number of possibilities."

I am aware of the nature of dark matter. No one has any idea why the 'apparent' mass discrepancy. That is why they are doing research

http://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/Bosma2/frames.html

"In each case there is more matter inferred dynamically than can be accounted for by known matter components. This mass discrepancy is usually attributed to additional (dark) matter, assuming that Newton's laws are valid. Only in Modified Newtonian Dynamics (MOND, cf. Milgrom 1983) is the discrepancy attributed to a modification of the force law at low densities. This theory has been worked out in detail only for the explanation of spiral galaxy rotation curves. The evidence for dark matter from extended rotation curves of spiral galaxies is considered the strongest, and this topic has thus spawned the most adhoc alternatives. Not only MOND, but also explanations based on magnetic forces have been considered. "

But that is off topic. The point is understanding consciousness being a worthwhile endeavor to understand and potentially discover the existence of supreme being and currently considered supernatural behaviors that relate to consciousness.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by Theodoric, posted 06-02-2011 6:02 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by Taq, posted 06-03-2011 11:38 AM tesla has acknowledged this reply

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10285
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 337 of 396 (618329)
06-02-2011 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 322 by tesla
06-02-2011 4:06 PM


Re: open minded debate
Tesla writes:

The majority of mankind believes that God is a real thing.

Do you think that human belief in the existence of something constitutues evidence in favour of that thing actually existing?

Why exactly are human beliefs even relevant to "Supernatural Science"....?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by tesla, posted 06-02-2011 4:06 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by tesla, posted 06-02-2011 7:12 PM Straggler has responded

tesla
Member (Idle past 2286 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 338 of 396 (618336)
06-02-2011 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 337 by Straggler
06-02-2011 6:45 PM


Re: open minded debate
Do you think that human belief in the existence of something constitutues evidence in favour of that thing actually existing?

Why exactly are human beliefs even relevant to "Supernatural Science"....?

Tesla writes:

The majority of mankind believes that God is a real thing.

Do you think that human belief in the existence of something constitutes evidence in favor of that thing actually existing?
Why exactly are human beliefs even relevant to "Supernatural Science"....?

Because according to the majority of the population there is more than just teaching involved for their beliefs. not to mention the tons of money sunk into research by individuals who believe the phenomenon to have more reality than just the imagination.

now tell me: is it better that uneducated peoples continue to dump money into mediocre research? or is it better that money contribute to true scientific exploration by the most educated minds?

I prefer to truly explore the potential in a way that--Right or wrong--will benefit mankind to have spent the funds.

Even if; explorations into the actual physics of consciousness do not explain superior consciousness, there is a possibility that it will. And if it doesn’t, understanding those physics will greatly enhance mankind in the ability to deal with issues of the consciousness: medically at the least, and perhaps even ‘evolution of thought’ as a pessimistic 'miss' in explaining the potential of superior consciousness.

How can you not see how only good can come from acknowledgment of potential superior intelligence?

Are you afraid a greater consciousness will be discovered?

Edited by tesla, : eep aap oop aha!


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by Straggler, posted 06-02-2011 6:45 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 339 by Straggler, posted 06-02-2011 7:25 PM tesla has responded

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10285
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 339 of 396 (618338)
06-02-2011 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by tesla
06-02-2011 7:12 PM


Re: open minded debate
Are you suggesting that because lots of people believe in something and invest their money in validating their belief in that thing that those beliefs are evidenced as a result? Is the scientologist belief in thetans evidenced on this same basis?

Tesla writes:

How can you not see how only good can come from acknowledgment of potential superior intelligence?

How can you not see how only good can come from acknowledgment of the potential existence of an Immaterial Pink Unicorn that will bless the good and punish the wicked?

Tesla writes:

Are you afraid a greater consciousness will be discovered?

Are you afraid of the positively evidenced but tentative conclsion that the whole idea of an inherently materially inexplicable entity that constitutes this supernatural "greater intelligence" is nothing more than a product of human imagination?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by tesla, posted 06-02-2011 7:12 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by tesla, posted 06-02-2011 7:36 PM Straggler has responded

tesla
Member (Idle past 2286 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 340 of 396 (618340)
06-02-2011 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 339 by Straggler
06-02-2011 7:25 PM


Re: open minded debate
Are you afraid of the positively evidenced but tentative concision that the whole idea of an inherently materially inexplicable entity that constitutes this supernatural "greater intelligence" is nothing more than a product of human imagination?

Not at all. But: without excessive funding neither one of us can find out anytime soon right?

The fact is: It's potential that exploring the physics behind consciousness will find results with funding either way. It could discover superior consciousness; i.e. God.

And it might not. But either way: mankind gains


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by Straggler, posted 06-02-2011 7:25 PM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 341 by Straggler, posted 06-02-2011 7:40 PM tesla has responded

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10285
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 341 of 396 (618341)
06-02-2011 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by tesla
06-02-2011 7:36 PM


Re: open minded debate
In the meantime all of the reliable positive evidence available to us suggest that gods are products of the human mind rather than real entities.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by tesla, posted 06-02-2011 7:36 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 342 by tesla, posted 06-02-2011 7:46 PM Straggler has not yet responded

tesla
Member (Idle past 2286 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 342 of 396 (618342)
06-02-2011 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 341 by Straggler
06-02-2011 7:40 PM


Re: open minded debate
In the meantime all of the reliable positive evidence available to us suggest that gods are products of the human mind rather than real entities.

To be honest: There is no scientific evidence that explains anything concerning events labeled 'Supernatural'.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by Straggler, posted 06-02-2011 7:40 PM Straggler has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 343 by jar, posted 06-02-2011 7:49 PM tesla has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31178
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 343 of 396 (618344)
06-02-2011 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by tesla
06-02-2011 7:46 PM


Re: open minded debate
tesla writes:

In the meantime all of the reliable positive evidence available to us suggest that gods are products of the human mind rather than real entities.

To be honest: There is no scientific evidence that explains anything concerning events labeled 'Supernatural'.

Is there any evidence there even is anything supernatural?

If there is no evidence something even exists then there is nothing to investigate.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by tesla, posted 06-02-2011 7:46 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by tesla, posted 06-02-2011 8:03 PM jar has responded

tesla
Member (Idle past 2286 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 344 of 396 (618346)
06-02-2011 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by jar
06-02-2011 7:49 PM


Re: open minded debate
Is there any evidence there even is anything supernatural?

That’s already been covered in this thread.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by jar, posted 06-02-2011 7:49 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 345 by jar, posted 06-02-2011 8:05 PM tesla has acknowledged this reply

jar
Member
Posts: 31178
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 345 of 396 (618348)
06-02-2011 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 344 by tesla
06-02-2011 8:03 PM


Re: open minded debate
tesla writes:

Is there any evidence there even is anything supernatural?

That’s already been covered in this thread.

then it should be easy to provide links to the posts where that is covered.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by tesla, posted 06-02-2011 8:03 PM tesla has acknowledged this reply

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