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Author Topic:   answersincreation.org (Literal Genesis AND Old Earth Creationism?)
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 16 of 105 (261193)
11-19-2005 1:18 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by macaroniandcheese
11-19-2005 1:11 AM


Re: the days of the week
i'll see what i can arrange.

This message is a reply to:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 17 of 105 (261245)
11-19-2005 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by arachnophilia
11-19-2005 1:18 AM


Re: the days of the week
hawt.

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 18 of 105 (261292)
11-19-2005 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by macaroniandcheese
11-19-2005 12:48 AM


Re: Theistic Evolutionism???
the bible claims the earth was created in seven days. well. six days and a nap to finish.
You seem to have misunderstood my question. Whether the Bible says the Earth was created in 6 days or over the course of 6 thousand years is irrelevant.
My question is how long ago does the Bible say this creation took place ?
Show me where the Bible says the Earth is under 10,000 years old ?
Ray

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 19 of 105 (261299)
11-19-2005 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Cold Foreign Object
11-19-2005 2:48 PM


Re: Theistic Evolutionism???
i see. well. the old testament gives us specific geneologies. the addition of the lifetimes of these individuals adds to somewhere around six thousand years or so.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days)
Posts: 6367
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Message 20 of 105 (261324)
11-19-2005 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by arachnophilia
11-19-2005 1:07 AM


Re: the days of the week
Genesis 2:4 "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD GOD made the earth and the heavens."
The whole creation period is referred as "the day."
I rest my case.

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 Message 14 by arachnophilia, posted 11-19-2005 1:07 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by arachnophilia, posted 11-19-2005 6:43 PM randman has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 21 of 105 (261343)
11-19-2005 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by randman
11-19-2005 5:43 PM


Re: the days of the week
Genesis 2:4 "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD GOD made the earth and the heavens."
The whole creation period is referred as "the day."
i addressed this above. it's a common hebrew idiom. "b'yom" is indefinate, and does not mean the other usages of "yom" are not specific.
quote:
  • "in the day that" meaning "when."
    --"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

I rest my case.
step 2: restate initial premise.
This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 11-19-2005 06:44 PM

אָרַח

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 22 of 105 (261368)
11-19-2005 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by arachnophilia
11-19-2005 6:43 PM


Re: the days of the week
It still indicates a much more varied use of "day" than you seem to be willing to admit to. If "day" can mean "when", then each "day" imo of the creation week can just mean "the when" these things occurred. The fact the earth wasn't even created until the 3rd day, nor the sun until the 4th, strongly suggests to me, and to plenty of others such as Jewish scholars (long before the evo/creo debate I might add), that the days here are not our days, as in 24 hour periods.

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 Message 21 by arachnophilia, posted 11-19-2005 6:43 PM arachnophilia has replied

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 Message 24 by arachnophilia, posted 11-20-2005 12:57 AM randman has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 23 of 105 (261373)
11-19-2005 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by randman
11-19-2005 8:12 PM


Re: the days of the week
The fact the earth wasn't even created until the 3rd day, nor the sun until the 4th, strongly suggests to me, and to plenty of others such as Jewish scholars (long before the evo/creo debate I might add), that the days here are not our days, as in 24 hour periods.
It suggests to me that the creation story is a fable, not an historic record. The sun had to be there before the earth could have formed.
The authors of that fable obviously thought that light came from the sky, and did not understand that the light from the daytime sky was diffused light that originated in the sun. Thus in the genesis account we see light created before the sun was created, and we see night and day existing before there was a sun.
This is clearly a pre-scientific account. It shows that genesis cannot be taken as a literal account. It has to be understood as the writings of man, not the word of God. It may have been inspired, but it cannot be infallible truth.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 24 of 105 (261425)
11-20-2005 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by randman
11-19-2005 8:12 PM


Re: the days of the week
It still indicates a much more varied use of "day" than you seem to be willing to admit to.
four specific contextual usages, one of them as part of an idiom, may be considered a varied set, but it doesn't mean you can ascribe any meaning you want. it MUST mean one of those things, depending on HOW it's used.
If "day" can mean "when", then each "day" imo of the creation week can just mean "the when" these things occurred.
that doesn't even make sense. and what part of the word "context" do you not understand? "yom" does not mean "when." ever. "b'yom" does, nearly always. that extra bet on the beginning is what makes the phrase "in the day." with out the b' it simply means "day."
The fact the earth wasn't even created until the 3rd day, nor the sun until the 4th, strongly suggests to me, and to plenty of others such as Jewish scholars (long before the evo/creo debate I might add), that the days here are not our days, as in 24 hour periods.
as an interpretation, sure. but it's still an interpretation that conflicts with both the p'shat and dresh readings of the text.
simply put, genesis 1:1-2:4 is the etiology of the hebrew week. it's the reason why they take saturday (shabbat) off, and it's the reason days start at sunset. it describes evenings and mornings, in modern terminology. and i wasn't joking when i said they're the days of the week. they are. for monday through thursday, that's what they're called today. for friday, it's spelled slightly differently now. for saturday, shabbat is clearly derived from term they use.
literally, it says "day" and must mean "day" because of the associations of the days of the week, and the terms morning an evening. as applied, it's why we should take saturdays off. it's the hebrew etiology of the week. so they HAVE TO BE 24hr periods for these reasons. if you can't accept that -- you're arguing with the bible, not me. if you think it's metaphorical, whatever. that's another debate. but LITERALLY it says "day" and MEANS "day."

אָרַח

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Cold Foreign Object 
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Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 25 of 105 (261612)
11-20-2005 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by macaroniandcheese
11-19-2005 3:20 PM


Re: Theistic Evolutionism???
i see. well. the old testament gives us specific geneologies. the addition of the lifetimes of these individuals adds to somewhere around six thousand years or so.
I asked where the Bible says the earth is under 10g.
Genealogies are not chronometers - they are lineages. In fact, conspicuously absent from Genesis is any chronometer.
Fact: The Bible says the Earth is old.
There is a vast gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.
Genesis 1 has God telling Adam to "REplenish" the Earth.
Ray

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 26 of 105 (261614)
11-20-2005 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by arachnophilia
11-20-2005 12:57 AM


Re: the days of the week
It does mean one of those 4. It means "when" and therefore does not specify length of time, imo. I thought that was clear before.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by arachnophilia, posted 11-20-2005 12:57 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 27 of 105 (261615)
11-20-2005 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Cold Foreign Object
11-20-2005 6:16 PM


Re: Theistic Evolutionism???
Fact: The Bible says the Earth is old.
There is a vast gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.
Ray, I know you've posted before that you accept the earth is old, is this "gap theory" or your own thinking? How old do you think the earth is?
Genesis 1 has God telling Adam to "REplenish" the Earth.
Is there a time-table for this? At what point in time does Adam step on the stage?
Just curious

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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 28 of 105 (261620)
11-20-2005 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by randman
11-20-2005 6:23 PM


Re: the days of the week
It does mean one of those 4. It means "when" and therefore does not specify length of time, imo. I thought that was clear before.
oh. my. god. no.
listen. see the subtitle of this particular thread? the days of the week? it says the days of the week, monday through friday, and shabbat.
b'yom is an idiom for "when." yom alone is not. yom shani is "second day" or "monday." it actually matters WHAT it says, and HOW it says it. context is important.
please, please, try to see the difference. this is not a very hard concept. and you can't just make stuff up, and think it will fly.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by randman, posted 11-20-2005 6:23 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by randman, posted 11-20-2005 6:42 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 29 of 105 (261623)
11-20-2005 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by arachnophilia
11-20-2005 6:37 PM


Re: the days of the week
"A day of the Lord is as a thousand years."
Think about it. What length of time does "day" denote there?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by arachnophilia, posted 11-20-2005 6:37 PM arachnophilia has replied

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 30 of 105 (261629)
11-20-2005 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by randman
11-20-2005 6:42 PM


Re: the days of the week
Main Entry: sim·i·le
Pronunciation: 'si-m&-(")lE
Function: noun
: a figure of speech comparing two unlike things that is often introduced by like or as (as in cheeks like roses) -- compare METAPHOR

אָרַח

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