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Author Topic:   General discussion of moderation procedures: The Consequtive Consecution
jar
Member
Posts: 31753
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 241 of 302 (281246)
01-24-2006 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by randman
01-24-2006 1:11 PM


randman posts an absolutely hilarious message.
So jar, are you saying the content here will not be available for years to come and that you would never use this content against anyone personally or compromise their anonymmity?

God I hope the content will be here for years to come and that folk can read the posts such as yours. To fear that I would use the content against someone personally is even funnier considering the Conservative Christian Rights support of the Bush administration's illegal wiretapping. I have no access to any secret information about our member, they don't even give names when they sign up. Did you give a name?

Further more, what anyone posts here at EvC is already there for ANYONE with a computer to read. Are you saying that you post things that you are ashamed for folk to read? Or do you fear being misquoted and taken out of context? If the later, I agree, and that is why, if you bother to read my posts, I am always careful to try to provide the context of what folk say instead of pulling stuff out of context and then misrepresenting what was said as YOU are so fond of doing.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by randman, posted 01-24-2006 1:11 PM randman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by randman, posted 01-24-2006 1:45 PM jar has responded

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3235 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 242 of 302 (281256)
01-24-2006 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by jar
01-24-2006 1:27 PM


Re: randman posts an absolutely hilarious message.
I mentioned Holmes' posts because it's a sensitive area in which his stance is more than a little controversial and one in which he has complained about being misrepresented, and yet no mod "has the time" but let someone bash you, and hey, we can get 3-4 people working on that problem as quick as possible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by jar, posted 01-24-2006 1:27 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by jar, posted 01-24-2006 1:58 PM randman has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 31753
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 243 of 302 (281263)
01-24-2006 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by randman
01-24-2006 1:45 PM


Yet another POTM-lite contender from the randman.
but let someone bash you, and hey, we can get 3-4 people working on that problem as quick as possible.

Bash me? Bash me?

Why you have not even been able to post a single accurate message. You can't get the links correct, misquote what is said, and when that is pointed out to you use your normal tactic of libeling the other person, trying to change the subject, moving goal posts and playing musical definitions.

This exchange is yet another example of why the record is so important, everyone, registered and not registered, active poster or lurker can read through the thread and come to their own conclusions.

Bash me? Why child, you have not yet even annoyed me. Your posts are sad, and pitiful, pathetic perhaps and deserving of compassion but hardly to be called bashing.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by randman, posted 01-24-2006 1:45 PM randman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by randman, posted 01-24-2006 2:35 PM jar has responded

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3235 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 244 of 302 (281276)
01-24-2006 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by jar
01-24-2006 1:58 PM


Re: Yet another POTM-lite contender from the randman.
Why you have not even been able to post a single accurate message. ...Bash me? Why child, you have not yet even annoyed me. Your posts are sad, and pitiful, pathetic perhaps and deserving of compassion but hardly to be called bashing.

Methinks you protest too much....and the language and logic is typical of your self-righteous foolishness and denigration of others without ever really addressing their claims, just dodging and weaving. Deny reality and logic at all costs, and pretend you are right..., eh?

Btw, you pledge not to try to use posts against people personally or not?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by jar, posted 01-24-2006 1:58 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by jar, posted 01-24-2006 2:45 PM randman has responded

Admin
Director
Posts: 12653
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 245 of 302 (281277)
01-24-2006 2:41 PM


Perhaps the participants in this discussion could demonstrate the high standards and ideals embodied in the Forum Guidelines and not turn this into a pissing contest?

Security is a legitimate concern. Those who wish to remain anonymous and who have personal information in their profile that would enable them to be identified are encouraged to change it. Of course, some members don't have this concern and use their real name, and there is nothing wrong with that. Fred Williams comes to mind. I personally feel that paranoia about being identified on the Internet is way overdone. I'm only anonymous because I'm paranoid, not because I think I have legitimate concerns.

Members should be aware that even if you've selected the hidden option for your email address, moderators can still access it. If your email address is something like jester47@yahoo.com then that's pretty anonymous and there's nothing to be concerned about, but if your email is something like sebastian.dimworthy.of.seekonk.ma@yahoo.com, then perhaps you'd better change it.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

jar
Member
Posts: 31753
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 246 of 302 (281282)
01-24-2006 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by randman
01-24-2006 2:35 PM


and randman once again resorts to insinuation...
and innuendo.

Btw, you pledge not to try to use posts against people personally or not?

As you well know, I have no secret way of determining who someone is from the registration information. Any information I have access to is simply what is in the public record, what is available to anyone and everyone.

Yet you persist in making unsupported assertions and libelous statements.

As to using what people post against them, I have never opposed the person, but rather their acts and behavior. I will, ofcourse, continue to point out where you, and others misrepresent what has been said, and will oppose bigotry and intolerance with what I hope are reasoned and logical replies.

Methinks you protest too much....and the language and logic is typical of your self-righteous foolishness and denigration of others without ever really addressing their claims, just dodging and weaving. Deny reality and logic at all costs, and pretend you are right..., eh?

Yet another assertion it seems. Perhaps you can start a thread to address what you believe. I will be happy to once again respond to your allegations.

Thank you for continuing to post so that the readers can judge your actions.

AbE: Based on Admin's prior message this will be my last post on this subject in this thread. If randman wishes to start yet another thread on the subject I will be happy to respond there.

This message has been edited by jar, 01-24-2006 01:48 PM


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by randman, posted 01-24-2006 2:35 PM randman has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by randman, posted 01-24-2006 3:00 PM jar has not yet responded

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3235 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 247 of 302 (281287)
01-24-2006 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by jar
01-24-2006 2:45 PM


Re: and randman once again resorts to insinuation...
will be happy to once again respond to your allegations.

As some like Faith and myself have pointed out to you before, you typically don't respond but try to avoid discussing issues when confronted with inconsistency, as you did repeatedly by claiming a response would be off-topic when I pointedly raised the issue of your inconsistent beliefs relative to a Creator, ID, and evolution.

If you want to address that thread's topic or any of the many areas you have dodged, please do so.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by jar, posted 01-24-2006 2:45 PM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by arachnophilia, posted 01-24-2006 11:52 PM randman has not yet responded

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2264 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 248 of 302 (281382)
01-24-2006 11:30 PM


up to snuff
do we have a spelling boot camp? cause miss princess peach is starting to drive me nuts.

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 249 of 302 (281388)
01-24-2006 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by randman
01-24-2006 3:00 PM


wwjs?
As some like Faith and myself have pointed out to you before, you typically don't respond but try to avoid discussing issues when confronted with inconsistency, as you did repeatedly by claiming a response would be off-topic when I pointedly raised the issue of your inconsistent beliefs relative to a Creator, ID, and evolution.

quote:
Mat 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by randman, posted 01-24-2006 3:00 PM randman has not yet responded

Silent H
Member (Idle past 4155 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 250 of 302 (281459)
01-25-2006 8:37 AM


cool and calm discussion of issues
I'm going to start by apologizing for whatever sarcasm of mine created an air of "disrespect" or "inconducivity" to my more recent posts. I am also going to apologize for not being as specific as I could have been (moose's suggestion of creating links is a good one) such that people may not have understood exactly what I was discussing.

I will strive to be as clear as possible and without a trace of sarcasm. There are a couple problems intertwined here. I think they should be examined carefully and thoughtfully.

The first is a problem with moderation, and unfortunately it influences everything else. There is an air of defensiveness which is not helping honest questions and criticisms to be dealt with in a fair way. I realize that mods are voluntary and may not have time to get to everything. But when mods do, it does not seem that it is always in a way that is "conducive" to a resolution.

For example, I began discussion of an issue with this post. With the exception of possibly the title (which I meant as comical) and the last line (which was an accurate assessment from my POV) there is nothing in that post which could realistically be interpreted as disrespectful. This was followed by a second, third, and fourth post with no intention of lack of respect, and none that I can find that could be read that way. The response I was getting from a moderator was inconsistent with the decision I was asking about, and laced with some insulting language (the first practically a threat). Thus those following posts showed restraint.

Only once I became upset verbally did I start getting a larger response, though no actual address to the problem I was discussing. The result was a feeling that no one was interested in actually resolving an issue, and instead only in arguing in a defensive nature against perceptions of wrongdoing.

I then tried to erase the board and just offer suggestions in post #142. People should note that that received absolutely no responses at all.

I actually had abandoned the topic after being told admins were working on an answer. I gave it no thought until the issue appeared to be coming up in a totally different thread. So I became curious and asked if there had been a resolution. I received no reply. Yet when randman wrote a sarcastic response to me, he got a response. When I tried to refocus discussion to my question, I was treated to unflattering language and suggestions which did not bear on the problem I was discussing. This again created an impression that resolution was not as much an interest or worthy of time as debating wrongdoing.

After my suspension, randman went to defend me and criticize moderation and the results can be seen: moderators have time to engage in personal debates, where none could find time to deal strictly with the issue I raised (in an originally wholly respectful way). This gave truth to what randman suggested originally, and what he later pointed out as mods began debating him.

When criticism or questions are raised, whether it is valid or invalid, there appears to be a "circle the wagons" approach to the person, rather than cutting to the chase and focusing on what procedural rule might be best for the issue at hand.

The second issue has also been demonstrated well in subsequent posts after my suspension. Jar has raised the issue of misrepresentation, and indeed repeated misrepresentation, and this is ironic given that he was the one who remonstrated me for the method I employed and so why I came looking for a solution.

Randman was not correct in thinking I was worried about real world retribution, though that could very well happen I suppose (though I wouldn't think Jar would). He was right however about something being a permanent record with my position being wholly misrepresented, and additionally no one caring until the same was done to a mod.

Misrepresentation is an issue that people, clearly even mods, don't enjoy and feel the desire to correct. It is more complex when it is done by people referring to issues from other threads, and repeat such behavior. Repetition of references to other debates(whether misreps or not) is a problem which others seem to be implying about randman, and pink backed me as being a problem in general.

It appears then that this is a real problem that requires a solution. I have not said that my way was the only way, nor have I tried to make that case. All I did was try to come up with a method on my own, only to face censure, without a replacement offered. All I am asking for is a replacement. None have been given, or supported when I raised a follow up question.

Jar in these last posts appears to have defied his own suggestion to me when faced with the same situation, and the admin is apparently unsatisfied with the suggestion he gave me (as that is exactly what Jar did here).

Okay so that's it. If no one has time or interest in dealing with these problems, or "perceived" problems, then please don't respond. And if someone wants to respond please do not do so with accusations or implications about me personally. I am really just trying to make debate flow better.

(edit to fix links - AdminNWR)

This message has been edited by AdminNWR, 01-25-2006 07:50 AM


holmes
"If you're going to kick authority in the teeth, you might as well use two feet. " (K.Richards)

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by Admin, posted 01-25-2006 8:51 AM Silent H has not yet responded

Admin
Director
Posts: 12653
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 251 of 302 (281462)
01-25-2006 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Silent H
01-25-2006 8:37 AM


Re: cool and calm discussion of issues
holmes writes:

...moderators have time to engage in personal debates, where none could find time to deal strictly with the issue I raised...

Time availability is relative to the problem being addressed. I can usually find time for a few posts. If you can find a way of interacting with moderators so as to reach a resolution within a few posts then I think you'll get more satisfactory results. As long as moderators feel that they have to set aside a couple hours a day over the course of a week in order to work through a problem with you, then you're not going to find very many volunteers.

I think you need a thicker skin. You've got to let some problems go. The moderator team isn't perfect, either, including me. My advice, as always, is to just focus on the issues and ignore anything that appears like personal slights. This board isn't a marriage counseling service. Members who can't get along are encouraged to not converse with each other, or perhaps they can settle it via email. But take it somewhere else. The board is for discussion.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Silent H, posted 01-25-2006 8:37 AM Silent H has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by Dr Jack, posted 01-25-2006 9:49 AM Admin has not yet responded

Dr Jack
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 3507
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 252 of 302 (281474)
01-25-2006 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 251 by Admin
01-25-2006 8:51 AM


Re: cool and calm discussion of issues
My advice, as always, is to just focus on the issues and ignore anything that appears like personal slights. This board isn't a marriage counseling service. Members who can't get along are encouraged to not converse with each other, or perhaps they can settle it via email. But take it somewhere else. The board is for discussion.

Hear! Hear!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Admin, posted 01-25-2006 8:51 AM Admin has not yet responded

LAKDAR
Inactive Member


Message 253 of 302 (281971)
01-27-2006 12:10 PM


HELLO!
HELLO, THE MODERATINGS. I AM WONDER HOW IT CAN BE I MODERATING OF THE FORUM. I AM HIGH GOOD MODERATING OF THE RANDOMNESS OF MONKEY FORUM AT THE TREVOR'S SIGHT. I AM MANY HAPPY TO HELP. I GOOD JOB OF THE USER IS BANNED AND THREAD IS A LOCKING!!

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by AdminNosy, posted 01-27-2006 2:27 PM LAKDAR has not yet responded

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 254 of 302 (282006)
01-27-2006 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by LAKDAR
01-27-2006 12:10 PM


Moderating
Welcome to EvC Lakdar. We like to have moderators with a wide range of opinions. We generaly wait until we see how well someone can conduct themselves and show an understanding of the guidelines and spirit of the site before we consider them as a moderator.

We try to avoid banning (and even temporarily suspending) people. We prefer to explain to them how they could improve.

There is nothing stopping any poster from pointing out that the spirit of the site isn't being upheld. You can practice moderating by both setting a good example and making constructive suggestions.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by LAKDAR, posted 01-27-2006 12:10 PM LAKDAR has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by Parasomnium, posted 01-27-2006 3:13 PM AdminNosy has not yet responded

Parasomnium
Member (Idle past 1032 days)
Posts: 2191
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 255 of 302 (282011)
01-27-2006 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by AdminNosy
01-27-2006 2:27 PM


Re: Moderating
I am reminded of Robin's "Comments on EvC Forum: A Play":

Raucous shouting can be heard in the street outside the pub. With a loud crash, the door is rammed from its hinges. An enormous Uzbek stands in the opening.

LAKDAR: GREETINGS, THE PUB DWELLINGS! I AM MANY HAPPY TO BE HERE. I GOOD JOB OF THE DOOR IS OPENED. I AM HIGH WONDER WHO IS A MODERATING.

Jar: (flustered) Jesus Christ!

LAKDAR (approaching Jar, shouting): YOU IS NEED FOR A NIPPING OF BUD? HAHAHAHAAAA! I AM HIGH GOOD NIPPING, I AM WONDER DEMONSTRATING?

AdminNosy (trembling voice): W...welcome, LAKDAR, would you like to ...ouch!

[LAKDAR grabs AdminNosy's nose and starts to spin like a hammerthrower. AdminNosy is hurled through the window.]

LAKDAR: HAHAHAAAA! HIGH GOOD NIPPING! NOW WODKA POURINGS!

[LAKDAR's fist crashes through the bar.]

LAKDAR: HUH? I AM WONDER WHERE THEY HAVE ALL GOING...

This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 27-Jan-2006 09:22 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by AdminNosy, posted 01-27-2006 2:27 PM AdminNosy has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by Silent H, posted 01-28-2006 6:10 AM Parasomnium has not yet responded

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