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Author Topic:   General discussion of moderation procedures: The Sequel
EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 111
From: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Joined: 07-22-2005


Message 105 of 300 (225682)
07-23-2005 2:00 PM


ARE YOU QUALIFIED?
I have only been a member a short while but already I have noticed that some individuals, (I will assume that they are evolutionists), make bold statements regarding what the Bible teaches. Their statements reveal their ignorance of the very topic on which they have chosen to comment. My question is, "Should anyone who does not study the Bible be making assertions about the Bible that show their ignorance of the topic?"
I know little about the sciences, (only what I read in journals, books, etc.), and am therefore not qualified to discuss indepth the various aspects of the theory of evolution. I choose to leave the deeper discussions on this topic to those who are obviously more qualified than I until I have personally had the chance to examine the material being discussed.
This does not mean that I am unwilling to listen to opposing views but I feel it would be dishonest of me to engage anyone on subjects such as taphonomy and taxonomy without first attempting to gain a better understanding of these areas of study. I would only be revealing my own ignorance on these subjects by commenting without a proper understanding of the topic of dicsuccion.
Should not Christians expect the same from evolutionists when discussing matters in which the Christian has a greater understanding rather than have to deal with some of the comments that I have seen from certain evolutionists thus far?
If one does not understand, or is not familiar with a particular subject, would it not be a better stragety to study the subject before engaging one in a discussion on the issue? I could easily respond with the same style of statements that have been directed towards me, statements such as,
Charles Knight writes:
"How do you know Jesus wasn't gay? It doesn't say in the bible he wasn't and he was suppose to be living on the planet as a man. He liked to hang out with lots of guys and never took a wife (Very odd for that time period)."
or
Brian writes:
"What makes you think Jesus wasn't a bigot?"
or
crashfrog writes:
"This is the sort of nonsense that typefies Christanist fundamentalism.....That's a nonsense statement, from a religion of nonsense."
Comments such as these are counter-productive and expose the author as being unworthy of engagement.
I know that I am not qualified to discuss the deeper concepts behind the idea of evolution and so I try to limit my involvement in those areas until I have gained a better understanding of the particular subject at hand.
I can only hope that more evolutionists would grant Christians this same courtesy.

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by AdminJar, posted 07-23-2005 2:04 PM EltonianJames has replied
 Message 107 by crashfrog, posted 07-23-2005 2:09 PM EltonianJames has not replied
 Message 108 by Faith, posted 07-23-2005 2:11 PM EltonianJames has not replied
 Message 110 by arachnophilia, posted 07-23-2005 2:28 PM EltonianJames has replied
 Message 135 by Brian, posted 07-25-2005 3:28 AM EltonianJames has replied

EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 111
From: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Joined: 07-22-2005


Message 111 of 300 (225696)
07-23-2005 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by AdminJar
07-23-2005 2:04 PM


Re: ARE YOU QUALIFIED?
The message was reposted here as suggested by the Admin Director.
You state in another post:
Before you go too far down this path you should realize that the people you specifically mention actually know a great deal about the Bible. Take some time and examine the threads where they have posted on Biblical content.
I find this hard to believe. If this is true, they should explain the Biblical basis for their comments.
You also state:
The second thing is that Evolutionist and Christian are not mutually exclusive. There are many, many Christians here who are also evolutionists.
The title "Christian Evolutionist" is an oxymoron. Anyone can believe themselves to be a Christian but all too often their words betray them, as the aforementioned posters have proven. One cannot be a true Christian when ones denies Christ or His teachings. Just because some white guy chooses to refer to himself as a black man does not make him black. I can recognize ignorance when I see it, thank you very much. While I appreciate offered help, I did not come here to become someone's puppet on a string, following their every whim without resistance. I guess for some individuals ignorance is bliss. However, I am not required to share in their ignorance.

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by AdminJar, posted 07-23-2005 2:04 PM AdminJar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by CK, posted 07-23-2005 2:33 PM EltonianJames has not replied
 Message 114 by arachnophilia, posted 07-23-2005 2:36 PM EltonianJames has not replied
 Message 115 by Faith, posted 07-23-2005 3:01 PM EltonianJames has not replied
 Message 117 by ringo, posted 07-23-2005 3:39 PM EltonianJames has not replied
 Message 144 by Rahvin, posted 07-25-2005 2:59 PM EltonianJames has not replied

EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 111
From: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Joined: 07-22-2005


Message 119 of 300 (225734)
07-23-2005 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by arachnophilia
07-23-2005 2:28 PM


Re: ARE YOU QUALIFIED?
Mr 6:11
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
That sounds like judging to me. Perhaps some "christians", (i use the term loosely), would argue that Christ contradicts Himself. I must say, when anyone decides to pick and choose which verses of scripture they will believe, they reveal themselves for what they are and "Christian" is not a term I would apply to them even if they choose to apply it to themselves. However, feel free to refer to yourself as anything that pleases you, that is your choice. I cannot judge what is truly in your heart, only God can do that. Just don't expect me to compromise the Word of God so that others can feel good about themselves and what they believe to be truth.

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by arachnophilia, posted 07-23-2005 2:28 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by arachnophilia, posted 07-23-2005 8:16 PM EltonianJames has not replied

EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 111
From: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Joined: 07-22-2005


Message 123 of 300 (225748)
07-23-2005 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Faith
07-23-2005 4:15 PM


Equality
Amen to that, Faith.

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Faith, posted 07-23-2005 4:15 PM Faith has not replied

EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 111
From: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Joined: 07-22-2005


Message 132 of 300 (226093)
07-25-2005 1:43 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Admin
07-23-2005 3:27 PM


New Topic Needed?
There are a number of posts in here that deserve a response but it has already been noted that this is not the proper forum for continued discussion. Would it be possible to begin a new topic thread in which this discussion could continue? It has apparently already been decided that my "Are you qualified" beginning post was not sufficient enough to begin a new thread. Any suggestions on how to keep this discussion alive will be greatly appreciated.

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Admin, posted 07-23-2005 3:27 PM Admin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by arachnophilia, posted 07-25-2005 2:54 AM EltonianJames has not replied

EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 111
From: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Joined: 07-22-2005


Message 137 of 300 (226244)
07-25-2005 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Brian
07-25-2005 3:28 AM


Re: ARE YOU QUALIFIED?
2nd Generation preacher. I have been studying and preaching the gospel for over thirty years. I dare say there are no evolutionists in here that have studied the Bible as long or as in depth as I have. As to your other query, eveyone is capable of commenting on the Bible. The same cannot always be said as to their qualifications.

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Brian, posted 07-25-2005 3:28 AM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by AdminJar, posted 07-25-2005 1:38 PM EltonianJames has replied
 Message 139 by CK, posted 07-25-2005 1:39 PM EltonianJames has not replied

EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 111
From: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Joined: 07-22-2005


Message 142 of 300 (226262)
07-25-2005 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by AdminJar
07-25-2005 1:38 PM


Comment and Suggestion
AdminJar writes:
This is not a debate forum. Please limit comments to discussing procedure.
Fine, procedure then. After searching through a fair number of topics it is quite obvious that several admins have an undisguised bias when it comes to Christians. I have noticed that these admins direct comments on perceived violations at the Christians personally rather than using a general reply which would be better applied to all posters. I am constantly being asked questions by evolutionists in an improper forum for the discussion they wish to engage in. The admins rarely raise an eyebrow. Just as soon as I offer a reply, these admins are quick to point out that...
This is not a debate forum.
Perhaps the Admin Director should be more involved, and even consider getting a better class of sub-admins.
Before joining EVC I had been warned of extreme bias towards Christians as well as strict rule enforcement with Christians while evolutionists are generally given a pass for similar violations. I would have hoped for a much more professional approach in applying rules and guidelines than I have been witness to thus far.
I have no problem keeping discussions in a proper forum. Perhaps the Admin Director needs to reinforce that same line of reasoning when choosing sub-admins. Certain sub-admins are not performing their admin duties in what I would consider a fair and honest manner.
EVC appears to be a well designed site and it would be unfortunate if it were to garner the reputation of being nothing more that a bastion of refuge for Christian bashing evolutionists. Let it be understood that I will no longer respond to any post in any forum in which the topic of discussion is not being followed other than to inform any individual that their post is off topic.
I realize that this may leave alot of posts unanswered but if the rules are to be followed they should be followed by all and these sub-admins should be admonished when they do not monitor any forum in a totally professional manner. I gather, (based on pictures available), that certain sub-admins are quite young and so the low level of professional maturity and courtesy in performing their admin duties is understandable, though it should not be viewed as a valid excuse for their behaviour.

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by AdminJar, posted 07-25-2005 1:38 PM AdminJar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by CK, posted 07-25-2005 2:57 PM EltonianJames has not replied
 Message 149 by arachnophilia, posted 07-26-2005 1:25 AM EltonianJames has not replied

EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 111
From: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Joined: 07-22-2005


Message 145 of 300 (226273)
07-25-2005 3:36 PM


Improper Post
Message 143 is an inappropriate post for this thread. Please refer to Message 138 for proper procedure.
Self-appointed ChristianAdmin EltonianJames

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 111
From: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Joined: 07-22-2005


Message 202 of 300 (230620)
08-06-2005 11:09 PM


Moderators Positions
Is there a place to find a list of all moderators with a outline of the position they hold regarding Biblical Creation versus Darwinian Evolution?

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by jar, posted 08-06-2005 11:14 PM EltonianJames has replied

EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 111
From: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Joined: 07-22-2005


Message 204 of 300 (230622)
08-06-2005 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by jar
08-06-2005 11:14 PM


Re: Moderators Positions
Thanks anyway!

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by jar, posted 08-06-2005 11:14 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by AdminAsgara, posted 08-06-2005 11:47 PM EltonianJames has replied

EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 111
From: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Joined: 07-22-2005


Message 206 of 300 (230630)
08-07-2005 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by AdminAsgara
08-06-2005 11:47 PM


Re: Moderators Positions
Thank You!

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by AdminAsgara, posted 08-06-2005 11:47 PM AdminAsgara has not replied

EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 111
From: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Joined: 07-22-2005


Message 208 of 300 (230867)
08-08-2005 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Admin
08-07-2005 11:12 AM


Re: A Note About Proving Things
Admin writes:
There have been some recent complaints about evolutionists who jump all over Creationists who use the term "prove" while frequently using the term themselves. The problem occurs because Creationists are misusing the word. Here are a couple examples that make the misuse clear.
It can be proven that the dinosaurs lived millions of years ago.
This is a proper usage. It only means that substantial supporting evidence can be offered to support the assertion that the dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. In science, when someone says they can prove something, all they mean is that they can offer a lot of supporting evidence.
A quick question. Following this line of reasoning, with which I do agree, and accepting the referenced dictionary definitions of proof and prove, would you also agree that a christian is applying correct usage in saying that it can be proven that Jesus was indeed God in the flesh and the creator of all things?
proof
NOUN:
The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.
The validation of a proposition by application of specified rules, as of induction or deduction, to assumptions, axioms, and sequentially derived conclusions.
Convincing or persuasive demonstration.
prove
VERB:
To establish the truth or validity of by presentation of argument or evidence.
To demonstrate the validity of (a hypothesis or proposition).
To find out or learn (something) through experience.

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Admin, posted 08-07-2005 11:12 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Admin, posted 08-08-2005 9:51 AM EltonianJames has replied

EltonianJames
Member (Idle past 6095 days)
Posts: 111
From: Phoenix, Arizona USA
Joined: 07-22-2005


Message 232 of 300 (232144)
08-11-2005 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by Admin
08-08-2005 9:51 AM


Re: A Note About Proving Things
Percy writes:
A lot of people think of this process as proving things, but science is tentative, so any finding, no matter how "proven", can be overturned, and it seems contradictory to most people that something proven could later be shown wrong. This is yet another reason for avoiding the word prove.
Works for me, thanks Percy.

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." Albert Einstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Admin, posted 08-08-2005 9:51 AM Admin has not replied

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