About that Boat - Noah's Ark

I want to know where they kept the whales and giant squids and the termites that were needed to feed the ant-eaters and ....

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A good step for creationists would be to do an actual scientific experiment: design and build a wooden ship using tools, methods and materials available when the OT was first set to parchment -- let you have the benefit of the doubt eh? --and then start loading it with every kind of life currently known to man with enough food for ... what is it? 600+ days start to finish? ... especially them termites ...

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Enjoy

ahahahahaaaaand how do you preserve barnacles on the inside?

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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I have also not seen a single translation that did not say "all outside the ark perished" (or words to that effect).Given that statement, all current life ev[/i]ver must have been inside regardless of enumeration of the "saved" species (usually left undefined to allow future additions as necessary).There needs to be a lot of krill for sure, but also do not forget the toothed whales ... including the blue whale that feeds on the giant squids, or killer whales ...Then you have the problem with "free surface effect" for the tanks holding all the sea animals and separate tanks for fresh ... and brackish ... and we haven't even gotten to the deep sea species that explode from decompression at the surface ...And then there is keeping the tanks free of contamination from the output of all the other animals.There are also bird species that can stay out to sea for years on end (660 days? Or what) and do not keep well in captivity ... and they are not mentioned.Now the YEC people have an additional problem: either every single life form on the earth today was on the ark, or they evolved from a "kind" ancestor in less time than scientific evolution calls for but which they have trouble visualizing. They need to set a date for the supposed flood event and then work backwards at scientifically reasonable speciation rates to determine what is their boatload was.Like I say, it is time for anyone who thinks this to be a credible possibility to build a working model.It should be entertaining. Perhaps Mel could do it ...

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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The issue of whales inside the ark has very real consequences to the seaworthiness of the ark. the free-surface effect can cause the ark to capsize, and the volume question becomes almost mute. Likewise insects that cause the structure to collapse like a mud house in an earthquake.On the issue of insects: if insects were not required to be inside the ark (1) many of the "flesh" animals would die for lack of food (note I make specific reference to "anteaters" that feed exclusively on termites) and (2) there should then be all the species of insect from before the flood event as there are after ... this is ridiculous when you look at the fossil record to see how many species should then be alive.On the issue of whales, how would they be any less "flesh" than cows and pigs and goats and chickens and ... you should get the picture by now.The two websites posted are not answers to these issues as they raise more questions than they answer. OR this is another dance around the issue, a new "god of the gap" argument, where now we can decide which species were inside and which didn't have to be, the ultimate end being only Noah and his family and the family cow needed to be inside. These are not answers for people who want to think about it, IMAO, but spoon fed syrup for those who want to be coddled.AIG in particular is known for misrepresenting facts and statements by scientists, and has no qualms about doing so even after the errors have been pointed out. (do a site search on [polonium] or [paluxy] ... both known hoaxes).From the KJV (online) http://www.genesis.net.au/~bible/kjv/genesis/

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Genesis 6: 13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. ... 17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. ... 21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.
Genesis 7: 23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Genesis 8: 21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

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-- No wiggle room there.From the NIV (online) BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.: Ibs

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"Genesis 6: 13 So God said to Noah, I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. ... 17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. ... 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them.
Genesis 7: 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.
Genesis 8: 21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

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-- No wiggle room there.Everything on earth will perish. ... And every living thing was destroyed ... except only what was in the ark. ... And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.No wiggle room at all.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

Sorry you are only looking at G7 -- go to the G8 versesKJV - "neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done."NIV - "never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done."that is where the wiggle room stops.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

For me the whole issue of the big boat comes down to two questions:(1) would you believe this story if it did not from the bible?
(2) would christian faith be affected in any way if the story were not in the bible?most people would answer no to both questions.if soemone were to answer yes to the first question and no to the second, then they would have to be regarded as gullible - imho.if someone were to answer no to the first question and yes to the second, then they need to show how that faith is affected.those who answer yes to both need to build a working model and load it up -- do the experiment.enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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The best way for creationists to demonstrate the feasibility (to them) of the whole ark scenario is to build a working model of the ark and repeat the "experiment" -- load it up and launch, stay afloat for 600+ whatever days while feeding and managing the menagerie by only 8 people.My bet is that no creationist organization will be interested in doing such a scientific study.

do we get to choose which 8 go?ahahahahaaaaanother way to do it would be as a reality show ...

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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http://www.ucomics.com/nonsequitur/2004/03/14/ooops?

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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it's as good a picture as any other I've seen ... imao.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understandRebel American Zen Deist

AATWould "all the things that crawl upon the earth" include every critter that spends any part of it's time above high tide but most of it's life in the water? Where do you draw the line between land crabs, intertidal crabs and deep sea crabs? None of which interbreed (to put it "kindly").

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understandRebel American Zen Deist

The question is not how they got to the ark -- the presumption (standard) is that the world was entirely different before the "flood" event.The question is how they got where they are after the flood, and why ONLY there ... koalas? S.Am Sloths? etcetera.Penguins have no trouble with water routes - they "fly" underwater, hence there modified but highly developed wings.

excellent post. I am saving it to link on another board when needed. talkorigins also has an article on this problem.we had a fellow posit that koalas travelled in a grove of eucaliptus trees that formed a path to australia - a moving oasis - in a series of discussions that came to be known as "the magic koala" scenario.and yes I saw that you did have both, but "getting to" is unecessary concern, the "getting from" is the critical one.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist

No anchor stones either.Cozy job to get eh? standard fees and no liability ....

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

well cliffie did have this to say about evolution: http://www.control.auc.dk/~kzoe00/buffalo_alcohol.htmlLOL, I'll drink to that

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}