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Author Topic:   General discussion of moderation procedures - Part οκτώ
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 76 of 302 (360135)
10-31-2006 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by riVeRraT
10-31-2006 12:31 PM


Re: Admin PD in Free will but how free really?
quote:
Please don't continue an old argument here. It doesn't belong.
The warning is so that you and Legend don't start rehashing the meaning of genea, Matthew 24:34, and whether Jesus lied or not.
The rest of the warning was to participants in general, not you specifically.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by riVeRraT, posted 10-31-2006 12:31 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by riVeRraT, posted 11-01-2006 10:20 AM AdminPD has not replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5820 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 77 of 302 (360153)
10-31-2006 2:22 PM


problem report
I'm generally not interested in "tattling" on someone, but there is an issue I am not sure how to handle.
After the last blowup I have not replied to crash and explained exactly how I would keep my distance. He stated that he had no interest in debating me again anyway, so I figured that would be the end of the problem.
However, he replied to a post of mine in the "Soc Issues in Cr/Ev Forum", with this postwhich brings up an unrelated topic as if it had relevance to the OP and then misrep'd my position in order to insult me... stating within his post not to answer. So essentially two insults and a goodbye.
I responded with a noninsulting post, which explained my position and asked that he not write just to insult me again.
His following replies... 89, 107, and finally 122... continue to level insults which have no relation to anything occuring within that thread, and appear mainly to be rehashing old issues he has had.
Unfortunately he also includes half arguments which I do feel compelled to respond to, to make sure my position on other issues were not misunderstood based on his claims.
At each turn I asked that if he was interested in those other topics (specific issues which were OT) to take discussion to the relevant threads that were already open for them. I even said that I would alert mods if he continued to insult me. He refused to stop this activity.
Given that not responding to his posts (ie ignore him) has not stopped him from replying with insults (essentially slander). That attempting to stay calm and focused, and redirect OT conversation to appropriate threads, results in more insults and OT discussion... I would like to know what I am supposed to do about him.
Edited by holmes, : url fix

holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by AdminJar, posted 10-31-2006 2:26 PM Silent H has replied
 Message 80 by crashfrog, posted 10-31-2006 2:40 PM Silent H has not replied
 Message 82 by AdminNWR, posted 10-31-2006 2:51 PM Silent H has replied
 Message 90 by nator, posted 10-31-2006 10:13 PM Silent H has replied

AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 302 (360156)
10-31-2006 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Silent H
10-31-2006 2:22 PM


Re: problem report
Ignore him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Silent H, posted 10-31-2006 2:22 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Silent H, posted 10-31-2006 2:33 PM AdminJar has not replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5820 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 79 of 302 (360162)
10-31-2006 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by AdminJar
10-31-2006 2:26 PM


Re: problem report
Ignore him.
I did. That is the problem. If I ignore him he doesn't just go away. I get insults just the same.
Unless you are suggesting that I put up with random insults and slander by him from time to time? That doesn't exactly seem fair.

holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by AdminJar, posted 10-31-2006 2:26 PM AdminJar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-31-2006 2:40 PM Silent H has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 80 of 302 (360164)
10-31-2006 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Silent H
10-31-2006 2:22 PM


Re: problem report
Oh, for god's sake Holmes.
You broke the silence with an implied, passive-voice reply to me. There's no insults in my posts to you; those charges are simply invented. I disagree with you, I'm pointing out how you do the things you accuse others of doing; those are supposed to be insults?
Indeed, I guess it's an insult to hold any position besides that which Holmes has approved.
Unfortunately he also includes half arguments which I do feel compelled to respond to
Oh, that's right Holmes. I'm controlling your mind to make you do things you don't want to do. Get out the tin-foil hats!
The only insults that have occured in our exchange have been the insulting falsehoods and misrepresentations you've just committed in this post.
Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Silent H, posted 10-31-2006 2:22 PM Silent H has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 302 (360165)
10-31-2006 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Silent H
10-31-2006 2:33 PM


Re: problem report
Unless you are suggesting that I put up with random insults and slander by him from time to time? That doesn't exactly seem fair.
Whats so hard about that. Just don't read the posts. Problem solved.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Silent H, posted 10-31-2006 2:33 PM Silent H has not replied

AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 302 (360169)
10-31-2006 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Silent H
10-31-2006 2:22 PM


Re: problem report
Unfortunately he also includes half arguments which I do feel compelled to respond to, to make sure my position on other issues were not misunderstood based on his claims.
And you respond with arguments or half arguments that crashfrog feels compelled to respond to.
... has not stopped him from replying with insults ...
And then you respond with what crashfrog likely perceives as insults. And thus the cycle continues.
Neither you nor crashfrog seems to know how to disengage from a "conversation" that you probably both find disagreeable.
You feel compelled to respond. You need to apply your knowledge of your own psychology to try understand crashfrog's psychology well enough to avoid making him feel compelled to further respond. Sometimes a simple "That's a misunderstanding of my position, but I won't respond further since this is off topic" might be enough to disengage. And sometimes it is best to not respond at all.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Silent H, posted 10-31-2006 2:22 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by crashfrog, posted 10-31-2006 2:59 PM AdminNWR has replied
 Message 86 by Silent H, posted 10-31-2006 5:37 PM AdminNWR has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 83 of 302 (360170)
10-31-2006 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by AdminNWR
10-31-2006 2:51 PM


Re: problem report
Any time that Holmes wishes to discontinue a discussion with me, he merely needs to say so, and I'll respect it until he begins the discussion anew, as he did.
I'm not an unreasonable person, but when Holmes replies to my arguments I conclude that he's interested in beginning a debate. At such time it's my choice to engage or not, and I chose to.
Holmes seems to be under the impression, though, that he can somehow snipe at my arguments without allowing me to respond. I don't find that reasonable.
If Holmes wishes to discontinue the debate then he need merely state that. He has not. If Holmes has a problem where he can't seem to stop himself from replying to me, that's an issue he should probably work to get under control.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by AdminNWR, posted 10-31-2006 2:51 PM AdminNWR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by AdminNWR, posted 10-31-2006 3:27 PM crashfrog has not replied

AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 84 of 302 (360176)
10-31-2006 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by crashfrog
10-31-2006 2:59 PM


Re: problem report
If Holmes has a problem where he can't seem to stop himself from replying to me, that's an issue he should probably work to get under control.
It is that kind of remark that is likely to result in holmes feeling compelled to respond.
I'd like to suggest that you each try to avoid hints that you are ascribing motives to the other.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by crashfrog, posted 10-31-2006 2:59 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-31-2006 4:59 PM AdminNWR has not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 85 of 302 (360190)
10-31-2006 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by AdminNWR
10-31-2006 3:27 PM


Re: problem report
quote:
If Holmes has a problem where he can't seem to stop himself from replying to me, that's an issue he should probably work to get under control.
It is that kind of remark that is likely to result in holmes feeling compelled to respond.
I'd like to suggest that you each try to avoid hints that you are ascribing motives to the other.
Eh, a little verbal jousting is good for honing debate skills. However, there does seem to be some polemics going on here. I don't think arguing, just for the sake of arguing, is a healthy thing.
There's my two cents... don't spend it all in one place.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by AdminNWR, posted 10-31-2006 3:27 PM AdminNWR has not replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5820 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 86 of 302 (360202)
10-31-2006 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by AdminNWR
10-31-2006 2:51 PM


Re: problem report
I'm going to make this comment and then let it go. It is meant as constructive criticism and not an insult.
It honestly does not appear you or Jar bothered to read the links, and are making assumptions regarding what happened based on previous encounters.
In suggesting that I responded with half arguments and that I said something that could be perceived as insulting (which in all honestly I'd like for you to point out to me)... you miss the fact that it was wholly OT and I suggested where proper dialogue could be continued if he wanted to address those issues. If his intent was serious, especially if he felt he had to respond to what I said, why didn't he carry it there? There does not seem to be a logical reason to continue responding in that thread, except to avoid proper debate and just keep insulting me.
In your response you just said we have a problem disengaging. While that is certainly true in the past (yes I understand that includes me), that does not represent this issue at all. I took previous criticisms quite seriously when handling this issue. I wanted that last go around to be the last.
This specific event lasted what? Four posts from me? With the first being a civil clarification and request for him not to simply throw insults at me. After 3 more civil requests to move debate to appropriate threads and stop insulting me, I stopped replying.
I DID disengage. Ultimately I will continue to ignore him... as I had been doing earlier, and which I just began doing again.
I simply came here to report activity that did not seem appropriate in a nonCoffehouse thread, as well as ask if there were any alternatives to "ignore him" since that did not seem to work, and it is annoying to have someone popping up simply to insult me. Apparently the answer is no.
Even if this was to be the answer, I believe this could have been handled better on your end. I was not unreasonable in my posts to crash, attempting to handle the issue with brevity, nor was I here.

holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode}
"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by AdminNWR, posted 10-31-2006 2:51 PM AdminNWR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by iano, posted 10-31-2006 7:43 PM Silent H has not replied
 Message 89 by crashfrog, posted 10-31-2006 7:55 PM Silent H has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 87 of 302 (360244)
10-31-2006 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Silent H
10-31-2006 5:37 PM


Re: problem report
Holmes, why don't you just ignore all Crashs posts (and vice versa). This is the quickest and most effective way to resolve the issue. Your no dummy, nor is Crash. But for this impartial (as regards your conflict) onlooker, last-wordism seems to be at the root of the problem of disengaging.
No criticism mind - I'm guilty of last wordism myself (indeed EvC would die in a week were it not for last-wordism. Hail last-wordism!)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Silent H, posted 10-31-2006 5:37 PM Silent H has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by AdminNWR, posted 10-31-2006 7:53 PM iano has not replied

AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 302 (360246)
10-31-2006 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by iano
10-31-2006 7:43 PM


Re: problem report
I'm calling that the last word on the holmes-initiated subtopic here. Let's not make this into a debate about members.
Future debating of the subtopic will be labelled as off-topic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by iano, posted 10-31-2006 7:43 PM iano has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 89 of 302 (360247)
10-31-2006 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Silent H
10-31-2006 5:37 PM


Re: problem report
OFF TOPIC - DO NOT RESPOND

This is what I'm talking about - Holmes attempting to argue with me indirectly. If you don't want to talk to me, Holmes, don't. But trying to act like you can talk about me or my arguments without somehow connecting them to me is bullshit.
If his intent was serious, especially if he felt he had to respond to what I said, why didn't he carry it there?
Well, I'll tell you why. Because I didn't bring up those issues to debate them, I brought them up as counterexamples against your points in those threads. That was all I did in my posts, and any additional discussion about those issues was merely to defend my use of them to rebut your on-topic points in the thread in question.
There's nothing underhanded about rebutting a point, but your attempt to portray my activities as being somehow motivated by malice is just another one of your odious distortions; just another one of the copious personal attacks that you make a great big show out of pretending to abhor so much.
With the first being a civil clarification and request for him not to simply throw insults at me.
Of course, since I had done absolutely nothing of the sort, there was no reason for me to do anything but continue in my entirely on-topic rebuttals to your points.
I simply came here to report activity that did not seem appropriate in a nonCoffehouse thread, as well as ask if there were any alternatives to "ignore him" since that did not seem to work
If you had actually done that, it would have worked. But instead you chose to reply to a post not directed at you under the cover of passive-voice shenanigans ("an argument has been made that...").
Don't misrepresent the issue, Holmes. If you don't want to argue with me, don't. But don't argue with me and then pretend you're not. It insults both our intelligences.
Ultimately I will continue to ignore him... as I had been doing earlier, and which I just began doing again.
Very well. I regret to inform you that I replied to one of your messages before I saw this one, but after this I won't reply until you do, again.
Edited by AdminNWR, : topic

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Silent H, posted 10-31-2006 5:37 PM Silent H has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 90 of 302 (360290)
10-31-2006 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Silent H
10-31-2006 2:22 PM


Re: problem report
quote:
Unfortunately he also includes half arguments which I do feel compelled to respond to,
You giving in to your compulsion is not crash's problem, nor his fault.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Silent H, posted 10-31-2006 2:22 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Silent H, posted 11-01-2006 4:40 AM nator has not replied

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