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Author | Topic: General discussion of moderation procedures - Part οκτώ | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
AdminPD Inactive Administrator |
quote:The warning is so that you and Legend don't start rehashing the meaning of genea, Matthew 24:34, and whether Jesus lied or not. The rest of the warning was to participants in general, not you specifically.
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5820 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
I'm generally not interested in "tattling" on someone, but there is an issue I am not sure how to handle.
After the last blowup I have not replied to crash and explained exactly how I would keep my distance. He stated that he had no interest in debating me again anyway, so I figured that would be the end of the problem. However, he replied to a post of mine in the "Soc Issues in Cr/Ev Forum", with this postwhich brings up an unrelated topic as if it had relevance to the OP and then misrep'd my position in order to insult me... stating within his post not to answer. So essentially two insults and a goodbye. I responded with a noninsulting post, which explained my position and asked that he not write just to insult me again. His following replies... 89, 107, and finally 122... continue to level insults which have no relation to anything occuring within that thread, and appear mainly to be rehashing old issues he has had. Unfortunately he also includes half arguments which I do feel compelled to respond to, to make sure my position on other issues were not misunderstood based on his claims. At each turn I asked that if he was interested in those other topics (specific issues which were OT) to take discussion to the relevant threads that were already open for them. I even said that I would alert mods if he continued to insult me. He refused to stop this activity. Given that not responding to his posts (ie ignore him) has not stopped him from replying with insults (essentially slander). That attempting to stay calm and focused, and redirect OT conversation to appropriate threads, results in more insults and OT discussion... I would like to know what I am supposed to do about him. Edited by holmes, : url fix holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode} "What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)
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AdminJar Inactive Member |
Ignore him.
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5820 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
Ignore him.
I did. That is the problem. If I ignore him he doesn't just go away. I get insults just the same. Unless you are suggesting that I put up with random insults and slander by him from time to time? That doesn't exactly seem fair. holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode} "What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Oh, for god's sake Holmes.
You broke the silence with an implied, passive-voice reply to me. There's no insults in my posts to you; those charges are simply invented. I disagree with you, I'm pointing out how you do the things you accuse others of doing; those are supposed to be insults? Indeed, I guess it's an insult to hold any position besides that which Holmes has approved.
Unfortunately he also includes half arguments which I do feel compelled to respond to Oh, that's right Holmes. I'm controlling your mind to make you do things you don't want to do. Get out the tin-foil hats! The only insults that have occured in our exchange have been the insulting falsehoods and misrepresentations you've just committed in this post. Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Unless you are suggesting that I put up with random insults and slander by him from time to time? That doesn't exactly seem fair. Whats so hard about that. Just don't read the posts. Problem solved.
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AdminNWR Inactive Member |
Unfortunately he also includes half arguments which I do feel compelled to respond to, to make sure my position on other issues were not misunderstood based on his claims.
And you respond with arguments or half arguments that crashfrog feels compelled to respond to.
... has not stopped him from replying with insults ...
And then you respond with what crashfrog likely perceives as insults. And thus the cycle continues. Neither you nor crashfrog seems to know how to disengage from a "conversation" that you probably both find disagreeable. You feel compelled to respond. You need to apply your knowledge of your own psychology to try understand crashfrog's psychology well enough to avoid making him feel compelled to further respond. Sometimes a simple "That's a misunderstanding of my position, but I won't respond further since this is off topic" might be enough to disengage. And sometimes it is best to not respond at all. To comment on moderation procedures or respond to admin messages:
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Any time that Holmes wishes to discontinue a discussion with me, he merely needs to say so, and I'll respect it until he begins the discussion anew, as he did.
I'm not an unreasonable person, but when Holmes replies to my arguments I conclude that he's interested in beginning a debate. At such time it's my choice to engage or not, and I chose to. Holmes seems to be under the impression, though, that he can somehow snipe at my arguments without allowing me to respond. I don't find that reasonable. If Holmes wishes to discontinue the debate then he need merely state that. He has not. If Holmes has a problem where he can't seem to stop himself from replying to me, that's an issue he should probably work to get under control.
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AdminNWR Inactive Member |
If Holmes has a problem where he can't seem to stop himself from replying to me, that's an issue he should probably work to get under control.
It is that kind of remark that is likely to result in holmes feeling compelled to respond. I'd like to suggest that you each try to avoid hints that you are ascribing motives to the other. To comment on moderation procedures or respond to admin messages:
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
quote: It is that kind of remark that is likely to result in holmes feeling compelled to respond. I'd like to suggest that you each try to avoid hints that you are ascribing motives to the other. Eh, a little verbal jousting is good for honing debate skills. However, there does seem to be some polemics going on here. I don't think arguing, just for the sake of arguing, is a healthy thing. There's my two cents... don't spend it all in one place.
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5820 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
I'm going to make this comment and then let it go. It is meant as constructive criticism and not an insult.
It honestly does not appear you or Jar bothered to read the links, and are making assumptions regarding what happened based on previous encounters. In suggesting that I responded with half arguments and that I said something that could be perceived as insulting (which in all honestly I'd like for you to point out to me)... you miss the fact that it was wholly OT and I suggested where proper dialogue could be continued if he wanted to address those issues. If his intent was serious, especially if he felt he had to respond to what I said, why didn't he carry it there? There does not seem to be a logical reason to continue responding in that thread, except to avoid proper debate and just keep insulting me. In your response you just said we have a problem disengaging. While that is certainly true in the past (yes I understand that includes me), that does not represent this issue at all. I took previous criticisms quite seriously when handling this issue. I wanted that last go around to be the last. This specific event lasted what? Four posts from me? With the first being a civil clarification and request for him not to simply throw insults at me. After 3 more civil requests to move debate to appropriate threads and stop insulting me, I stopped replying. I DID disengage. Ultimately I will continue to ignore him... as I had been doing earlier, and which I just began doing again. I simply came here to report activity that did not seem appropriate in a nonCoffehouse thread, as well as ask if there were any alternatives to "ignore him" since that did not seem to work, and it is annoying to have someone popping up simply to insult me. Apparently the answer is no. Even if this was to be the answer, I believe this could have been handled better on your end. I was not unreasonable in my posts to crash, attempting to handle the issue with brevity, nor was I here. holmes {in temp decloak from lurker mode} "What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." (D.Bros)
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iano Member (Idle past 1941 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Holmes, why don't you just ignore all Crashs posts (and vice versa). This is the quickest and most effective way to resolve the issue. Your no dummy, nor is Crash. But for this impartial (as regards your conflict) onlooker, last-wordism seems to be at the root of the problem of disengaging.
No criticism mind - I'm guilty of last wordism myself (indeed EvC would die in a week were it not for last-wordism. Hail last-wordism!)
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AdminNWR Inactive Member |
I'm calling that the last word on the holmes-initiated subtopic here. Let's not make this into a debate about members.
Future debating of the subtopic will be labelled as off-topic. To comment on moderation procedures or respond to admin messages:
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
This is what I'm talking about - Holmes attempting to argue with me indirectly. If you don't want to talk to me, Holmes, don't. But trying to act like you can talk about me or my arguments without somehow connecting them to me is bullshit. If his intent was serious, especially if he felt he had to respond to what I said, why didn't he carry it there? Well, I'll tell you why. Because I didn't bring up those issues to debate them, I brought them up as counterexamples against your points in those threads. That was all I did in my posts, and any additional discussion about those issues was merely to defend my use of them to rebut your on-topic points in the thread in question. There's nothing underhanded about rebutting a point, but your attempt to portray my activities as being somehow motivated by malice is just another one of your odious distortions; just another one of the copious personal attacks that you make a great big show out of pretending to abhor so much.
With the first being a civil clarification and request for him not to simply throw insults at me. Of course, since I had done absolutely nothing of the sort, there was no reason for me to do anything but continue in my entirely on-topic rebuttals to your points.
I simply came here to report activity that did not seem appropriate in a nonCoffehouse thread, as well as ask if there were any alternatives to "ignore him" since that did not seem to work If you had actually done that, it would have worked. But instead you chose to reply to a post not directed at you under the cover of passive-voice shenanigans ("an argument has been made that..."). Don't misrepresent the issue, Holmes. If you don't want to argue with me, don't. But don't argue with me and then pretend you're not. It insults both our intelligences.
Ultimately I will continue to ignore him... as I had been doing earlier, and which I just began doing again. Very well. I regret to inform you that I replied to one of your messages before I saw this one, but after this I won't reply until you do, again. Edited by AdminNWR, : topic
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: You giving in to your compulsion is not crash's problem, nor his fault.
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